Just bought a Sincgars 1523B...need some install help.

[vitamink]

I just purchased this for a ton of money.


It's an RT 1523B that's brand new, but not real. It's a trainer. Apparently you can't send or receive but it has all the other features for Radio folks to learn on. I jumped on it as i couldn't afford the $4,000 real thing. My question is this. I have a Hmmwv M998 that i wish to install this in. I'm good on the antenna the antenna tuner, and the handset. What else do i need to make this work? I'm looking for the mount that powers this thing, the mount above the transmission, as well as any and all wiring that i may need. Any help is appreciated. I did a search here and found some older threads talking about the benefits of the radio and other models, but nothing specific to the mounting or operation.

thanks in advance
VK

 

[bikeman]

VK, you'll need a radio shelf, and a AN/VRC mount. it's usually a 2 shelf unit with the ability to ad in an amplifier. The 1523 will slide right into one of the compartments and 'hook' into the attachments at the back. your vehicle antenna will need to be wired into the antenna plug on the front of the unit. There's also a shelf mount that I always forget about.

First figure minus 4,5 and 6. is what you're looking for.

http://vehicularradios.tpub.com/TM-11-5820-890-10-3/css/TM-11-5820-890-10-3_20.htm

 

[Suprman]

I remember in the 90's those were pretty highly classified we weren't even allowed to open them for repair they had to go to depot maintenance. I would be very surprised if you could buy a fully functioning one.
Will

 

[123mack]

Here's an excellent resource for green radio. http://www.prc68.com/I/sincgars.shtml

 

[BLK HMMWV]

There are a few of those around now I think they went for around $135 . There plastic. They are about 1/2" to 5/8" too deep compared to the real one.
They have 3 big round multi pin connectors on the back and are all different and in the wrong place to fit the tray. At least the tray I have for my other sincars.
Also there are some slots that will need to be cut into the back of the unit to fit over some square or rectangular pins on the tray itself.
I decided to just pull the 2 cards out and all of the connectors and use it as a tray filler in the top tray. I'm toying with putting an I pad or other device inside it or using it as a storage device for other semi secure stuff. They bottom slot is the primary radio slot anyway.
I know that wasn't what you wanted to hear. Perhaps they had a special tray for the radios in the classroom but they don't fit a standard Sincars tray. Or perhaps you have something else .
Send me your email addy and I can take a few pictures of my tray and what I'm talking about if you want.
UC

 

[BLK HMMWV]

Tray

In the above post the link will show you a AM-729B radio tray.
As you can see in the picture there is not 3 round multi pin connectors in the back of the unit.

 

[vitamink]

BLK HMMWV i knew i should have checked with you first but the deal popped up fast and i had to act. You are correct in the fact that there 3 round plugs in the back all equidistant from each other. I've been searching for a schematic to see how to hook one up but haven't found anything yet. I'll probably just end up selling it. Oh well. My initial plans were to get power to it then replace the interior with a CB or something similar so it'd have the look and the function without the FCC issues.

 

[BLK HMMWV]

Don't give up just because of me. It will still help you fill out a radio tray. like I said the bottom tray is the primary tray so eventually you can still get a working radio.
If you do decide to sell it let me know I would buy it from you.
BH

 

[vitamink]

The thing looks the part and is awesome...I just wish i could figure out a way to power it. I don't have any sort of manual or brand name to search to get a PDF file or anything like that. It does have the 3 round connectors open on the back but i can't figure out how you would connect it to power in a vehicle using a tray or whatever. I paid almost 500.00 for it. I hope i don't end up regretting it. I may have to take a loss if i can't figure out how to connect it up.

 

[Suprman]

I remember the sincgars op manual was not classified it should show connections. You can use a standard handset for it. There are installation kits for those radios with brackets and cabling for each different vehicle. Put up a pic of the back.
Will

 

[Suprman]

Google sincgars vehicle mount go to pics I found all kinds of different ones
Will

 

[emmado22]

You won't be able to put it in a mount. It is a trainer, not the real thing. No VAA made 3 connections like on the back of that radio. Not a one, no matter what version it is.

 

[vitamink]

This is what i'm talking about

Everything looks to be 100% with the exception of those odd rear ports. I know nothing about the company so i can't research a PDF. I'd like to power it up

 

[vitamink]

VAA? Pardon my ignorance. If you're saying i can't power it from a vehicle or modify a mount then i'll probably just sell it and save up money (for like 10 years) until i can afford the real thing. I had such high hopes.

 

[BLK HMMWV]

Well yours has a ground lug on it were as mine doesn't but other then that it looks like mine.
I think Emmado22 is referring to the Vehicular radio tray adapter when he said VAA. I'm not sure what the VAA stands for either. It might be Vehicular Amplified Adapter or something like that.
But the bottom line is you would need to severley modify the thing to get it to fit into the tray.This includeds removing the three connectors J6,J7,J8 that stick out of the back as well as the ground stud. Then you need to drill a new hole in the back of the unit to allow for the trays connectors as well as some alignment pins in the corners. Thats just to get it to slide back far enough in the tray so that the locking clamps will engage to hold the unit into the tray. You really can't modify the tray. The pin set that is in the tray that would be used to power up a normal Sincgars unit is in the approx. area as the plug labled J6 on the back of your unit. However the pins are different and approx. 1/2" out of alignment.
Hope that helps .
BH

 

[sigo]

VAA= Vehicular Amplifier Adaptor. Yes it's the two shelf radio thingy.

I saw that radio trainer for sale and I wondered, who used these things? They weren't used at the Signal school, or if they were it was in very limited numbers, and then they weren't used to train the Soldiers that work on radio installations and such. All the radio classrooms at the Signal schools have real SINCGARS.

 

[papakb]

If you look back at the SINCGARS history it's pretty sad. The original 1439s were introduced in the late '80s and were a nightmare. Lot's of technical issues. The original 1523 only added internal crypto but retained all the other headaches. The "B" models were producted from about '94 to '96 and my guess is this trainer was designed to emulate that radio and by the time it hit the field they had moved on to "C" or "D" models so they weren't ever produced in large numbers, probably just one contract for Fort Gordon.

Since this was designed as a trainer they most likely kept the front panel but then only designed enough circuitry to accomplish what was requested. Since actual transmitting and receiving weren't involved there most likely isn't any circuitry for it in the tranier. Likewise it was designed for a desktop in a classroom and therefore never went into a mount. I agree with BH on it's use. Modify the case to fit into the lower shelf of the vehicle adapter and then keep looking for a real radio. Most of the early stuff is making it's way out slowly. Don't expect to find an "E" or "F" model because the nexy call you get will be from some triple lettered agency in the Washington DC area.

As with any modern radios, get a bill of sale along with the sellers ID. The SINCGARS is usable in single channel mode on the 6 meter amateur band with a license.

Kurt

KG6KMJ

 

[vitamink]

The information here is incredible. I appreciate the history lesson kurt, you know your stuff. I got some real helpful tips from BH as to how to modify it to fit in the VAA (i know what that is now ). Still undecided on what to do, but at least i know where the path begins, just gotta decide what direction to travel. Thanks everyone.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

I have a dozen of those as well for film work. All they were meant to do is take keyboard input and send it to a central computer in a school setting, then the central computer would return simulated audio and generate a display. Without the central computer hooked up to that thing you basically have what amounts to a TV remote without the TV. They look cool - but that's it. I was going to use some spare time to see if I could feed the circuitry whatever it expected for input voltage and see if the display would display something by default and/or echo local keyboard input but 'spare' and 'time' haven't been seen together in the same sentence much lately.

Everyone's also correct about the fit problems in the VAA. You'll have to do an awful lot of trimming to the back end to get them to fit to the point you can use the retaining clamps and security brackets and what-not. I did some rough measurements when the things first came and there was a ton of modifying to do. If I *do* work out a quick way of modding them to get some sort of display I'll post the instructions here and perhaps a friend with some soldering skills could do the same for you.

Steelsoldiers is a great resource if you're thinking of making purchases like that in the future...maybe just ask here first if members think x-radio item on ePay or wherever is worth it. "Worth it" is a subjective term, I suppose, but many of us keep an eye on the relative value of things and/or know where you can get a better deal elsewhere -- or just suggest you save your money until you can get something better suited to your requirements. Those trainer sets like yours for the most part went from $59 to about $135 each about a month or so ago, but once the initial batch dried up, someone posted another listing with the same thing and a heavy-duty starting price tag. Again, it's all relative in this hobby...and sometimes timing is everything.

 

[vitamink]

I hear that about the spare time. BLK sent me some pictures of what needs to be removed to make them fit. I've done some preliminary testing with a volt meter and i'm pretty sure i can disassemble a CB, put it inside, and use all the rheostats and switches to change volume, channel, etc. Essentially you'd have a CB that looks like a sincgars. I think that's what i'm going to do as, like you said, the intial price verses current going rate are vastly disproportional and i may never recoup the loss. Which, if you should decide to sell one at 135 please me know! I'm clear that SS is an amazing place for info. I met a guy selling one and only 1 other time did i see them for sale (almost 300) so i jumped. I knew i couldn't afford the exorbitant price on the real thing. kinda off topic, but what films have yours been in? That's really cool!