ballistic joints for dogbone, torque rod

[smoke]

I was wondering if I could use Ballistic joints for dogbone, torque rod end.

They are 3" in diameter. I figure they would be strong and last longer then rubber ones. If the 3'' diameter are not big enough I look for bigger ones. What do you think? I need to replace a couple just not trying to do this often. With the prices of new ones may be a different option.

 

[Heath_h49008]

Heim joints might work, but the tension/compression of the dogbone's rubber acts to center the axle and dampen vibration.

I would be curious to see what the driveability changes would be.

 

[welldigger]

As long as they are beefy enough to handle the weight of a deuce I don't see why they wouldn't work. I have seen 4 link suspensions take a nasty beating and hold up just fine.

 

[smoke]

Do you think I need bigger than 3" diameter ones. Don't have truck in front of me. It is still at friend's house 85 miles away. If someone has one laying around and give spec. Maybe able to figure out.

 

[welldigger]

Try contacting the manufacturer. I'm sure they could give you an idea of their strength. Most of those large heim joints are rebuild able also.

 

[Junglemist]

Both Boyce Equipment and Erik's Surplus have recently listed ball-joint torque rods for sale.

Boyce has complete toque rods designed around ball-joint ends.
http://www.boyceequipment.com/#!product/prd1/448901111/2-1/2-ton-complete-torque-arm-(steel)


Erik's has the new style ends that can be installed into standard torque rods.
http://www.eriksmilitarysurplus.com/torodendform1.html

 

[Heath_h49008]

Erik's seems to be the logical choice there. Wow that's salty.

 

[welldigger]

Yikes those are high. The ballistic fab heim joints are a bit cheaper and rebuildable. Though you would also need to fab a whole new dog bone. Still cheaper than the boyce version.

 

[Jakob]

I went through all of this in the planning and design when my torque rod ends went bad. It was no where NEAR feasible to install those joints as you might initially think.
-First, the joints you are looking at are designed for double shear, not single shear like the factory setup.
-Second, the existing brackets have a tapered hole. They will not work with a straight shank bolt like the joint requires.
-Third, new dog-bones will have to be fabricated. This is probably the easiest hurdle to overcome.
-Fourth, you will need to run a pan hard bar to keep the axles centered. Otherwise, they will wander back and forth with no tension to center them.

 

[gringeltaube]

..........................
-Fourth, you will need to run a pan hard bar to keep the axles centered...............

Keep the axles centered? ....from wandering back and forth....? Do you mean laterally centered- maintaining the rear wheels aligned...? If so... and you needed a Panhard bar to be able to run dogbones with Heim joints then you would need the same for Erik's or Boyce's joints, too. Which is NOT the case: axles are kept in place via the spring pack ends in their respective pockets. And spring packs are firmly attached to the spring seats - which by design rotate around their center pivots, with NO PLAY (as long as the bearings/bushings are OK, at least ) (see this old post).


G.

 

[m-35tom]

why reinvent the wheel? mine are over 40 years old and are still going strong. and the weight of the truck is not on them, just the power / torque of the drive line which is rather small.

 

[Adxavier06]

Well Im glad this thread came up. Today I had a torque rod joint fail on me today. I went ahead and ordered two of the upgrades ones from Erik's.

 

[silverstate55]

Figures that new ones would come out now, I just replaced all 12 of mine last summer....I'll have to wait another 19 years to replace them then (dry rot from the desert).

 

[Adxavier06]

Figures that new ones would come out now, I just replaced all 12 of mine last summer....I'll have to wait another 19 years to replace them then (dry rot from the desert).

Was the install difficult?. I have a 20 ton shop press. So I'm pretty sure I can do it.

 

[gringeltaube]

Why reinvent the wheel? Mine are over 40 years old and are still going strong

Not everyone is so lucky, Tom. Usually when you start "working" them off-road, plus moderate to heavy loads, those bushings won't get old. At least I had to change out a lot!
Surprisingly some of the very old ones I had, out-lasted later generations in many cases. It may mostly depend on the quality of the rubber-material used, how fast they would degrade: I got a batch of NEW spare parts, once....; had them stored in a box for years... next time I saw them they were all cracked and the rubber already separating from the sleeve!... useless even before use...!!
If that OEM "ball"-joint design was really so fail-proof (see this thread and this write-up with pics) no-one would be looking for alternatives or upgrades...

We saw what KIA did on their K250 trucks (picture, courtesy of Strykerboy). I think I saw a Canadian M35 which had something different there, too.

I have no idea how long those aftermarket, greasable ball joints would last. Sure enough they are NOT maintenance-free! Heim joints may not last that long, either....who knows!?
But tell me a source for GOOD rubber bushings and I will NOT reinvent this wheel ...!


G.

 

[Adxavier06]

Well I can say in the last few weeks I put my duece threw some good work with really soft sand and some hills that really articulated the rear axles. And I thought my torque rod bushings looked in good condition but today showed that you gotta always expect the unexpecting. But I'm gonna put the upgrading ones through **** and I I'm gonna do a very good write up on changing them out with pics for the guys that are curious on changing them out.

 

[gringeltaube]

You might want to read this thread first: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?75224-Pressing-Torque-Rod-Ends-In-Out


G.

 

[silverstate55]

Was the install difficult?. I have a 20 ton shop press. So I'm pretty sure I can do it.

Not difficult, but tedious. I also used a 20-ton shop press with no problems. Make sure you have at least a 3/4"-drive ratchet, breaker-bar & socket set, 1-inch would be better. I found it necessary to remove the driver's side spring pack to access the upper torque rod ends, and it gave me a chance to inspect & service the rear suspension trunnion & several other parts that would have been too easy to overlook otherwise.

IIRC, the frequently-used socket sizes were 1-1/8" and 1-1/2"; make sure you have wrenches in these sizes as well to hold the bolts as you tighten the nuts, etc... The axles have locating pins on them, so it's very difficult to NOT install everything back correctly...it's pretty simple actually.

Make sure you have lots of blocks of wood, something as a minimum 4"x6"....2x4's probably won't cut it unless you fab up some custom HD cribbing.

If you try out some of these new greaseable ball joints, I'd love to see pics of the install & finished product.

HTH.

 

[Adxavier06]

Thanks for the tips^^^.

 

[silverstate55]

You might want to read this thread first: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?75224-Pressing-Torque-Rod-Ends-In-Out


G.

Thanks G, good advice there & I remember consulting that thread before I did mine. I used a bearing cup that fit perfectly around the outside edges of the bushing, and it scooted right out in a few seconds each time...it also made seating the new ones a breeze (with a little anti-sieze inside the wire-brushed & cleaned torque rod end).