Hydraulic Dump Bed and Winch?

[rmgill]

So, I'm starting to think about dump bed hydraulics and the winch for the bed for assisted loading. The general idea is to have a winch at the top of the bed so I can load and unload my own S280 shelter vis a vis a roll back wrecker. Some small ramps easy to handle would help support the edge and get it over the edge but otherwise it should work fine.

For the hydraulic controls I need a valve to control the lift function and another valve to control the winch. If I get a ~8000 lb hydraulic winch what configuration of valves do I need? I'm thinking remotely operated valves with an electric control paddle I can be outside the truck would be handy, that way I can precisely dump things AND precisely load the shelter with out managing to tear something off that I can't see.

24 volt valves would be preferable to avoid any step down functions. Cable is easy. What kind of valves? I'd need to be able to control the reverse speed of the motor so it's going to spool slowly. So simply reversing hydraulic flow P-> B and A -> T isn't right is it?

 

[TheBuggyman]

I don't know if this helps or not but my new Knaphoist Kit had an option on the control valve for an auxiliary control using the dump hoist pump. I did not get that option but it does in fact exist. Go to www.Knapheide.com. My new John Deere uses solenoid actuated hydraulic valves to operate a bucket grapple and on the valve is a flow control dial to regulate closing/opening speed. See my post on "M813-A1 dump conversion".

 

[Djfreema]

rmgill, that is the EXACT idea I have for loading/unloading a shelter of some sort. I was going to stick to all electric stuff, (winch/hydraulics). I havent figured out a ramp set up yet, at least an affordable ramp set up.

 

[rmgill]

Well, if you raise the bed and then start lifting, the end of the shelter should get pretty close to the edge of the bed, depending on dump angle. One possible issue is if the whole shebang tries to get unstable on you or not. You'd be lifting the end of the shelter a fair amount. Though I suppose if you REALLY wanted to get fancy, you'd add in two ramps that would power out and in under hydraulic control with a pivot (like in an M1911) that'd push them up flush with the bed at the end of the stroke.

I also think you'd want to attach the winch cable to a bridle under the rear end of the shelter it should snug up right at the correct place. A brace of angle under the front end to act as a guide AND as a positioner should be needed for the cable however.

The question I have regards the hydraulic winch. Does it need a free spool center detent position OR does it need a closed center to stop the motor? Does a winch have issues with cavitation? Will the winch if controlled with a spool center valve, come to a stop and hold the 2 tons of shelter or will it slide back out?

 

[rmgill]

Re: RE: Hydraulic Dump Bed and Winch?

I don't know if this helps or not but my new Knaphoist Kit had an option on the control valve for an auxiliary control using the dump hoist pump. I did not get that option but it does in fact exist. Go to www.Knapheide.com. My new John Deere uses solenoid actuated hydraulic valves to operate a bucket grapple and on the valve is a flow control dial to regulate closing/opening speed. See my post on "M813-A1 dump conversion".

I'm probably going to go with a pair of solenoid operated valve. That way I can get out of the truck and stand to the side with the paddle control (two double throw three position switches for the winch and for the hoist) and then supervise the winching aspects to make sure I'm not buggering things up. That means the control for the valve will be somewhere else rather than a traidtional dump power package.

I'm probably going to try to get a standard pump off of a 2.5 ton wrecker for maximum compatibility.

 

[derby]

RE: Re: RE: Hydraulic Dump Bed and Winch?

Have you thought about an old bridge truck bed? hydraulic control valve,pump, tank, hydro winch,and some heavy rollers all in one pkg.

 

[rmgill]

RE: Re: RE: Hydraulic Dump Bed and Winch?

Nope. That'd be WAAY too big. I want deuce parts in basic form that I can bolt right up. Perhaps the valves, but I haven't seen any getting parted out. I suppose I could Ask CSI Inc over in Dallas Ga.

 

[gimpyrobb]

RE: Re: RE: Hydraulic Dump Bed and Winch?

Ryan, I know the hydraulic winch on my buddy's rollback will keep things in place. He loads up a car, chains the rear axle and puts tention on the whole deal with the winch. Then off he goes. I don't think you will find many that will let the load slip. I think they have brakes on them just like pto winches.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Ryan, are you completely commited to a hydraulic powered bed? I installed a dump bed with a 24volt electric pump and I would not have it any other way. I am just up the road from you if you want to see it.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Ryan
Electric/hydraulic pump would be easier. Find an old 24 volt forklift in a scrap yard or GL and rob the parts/ Get the proper solenoid valves (if you can find an old stand up lift or reach lift they will already be there). Buy a hoist pendent, they are a nice size, and have 2-10 push buttons already installed. Rig the pendent so it can be unplugged from the truck and stored away from prying little hands.....

 

[Elwenil]

Why not rig up some sort of A frame to lift the shelter to the level of the bed when tilted? Something similar to the A frame rig available for Deuces and the rigs illustrated in the recovery manuals. Might be easier to manage and stow and would be useful for loading all sorts of things and it could use the same winch for operation.. Just another thought...

 

[rmgill]

I'm leaning towards the Hydraulic off the PTO because I already have a rear facing PTO output. It's one of those very neat units that has a front wards facing shaft for the winch and a rear facing unit for other devices (probably the dump hoist hydraulic pump).

My preference is to eventually have some Hydraulic tools I can run too. I do like the idea of a hydraulic control pendant and servo valves. That way I can stand next to the truck in a safe place and control the lifting/loading functions OR control them from the cab without having to run hydraulic lines to the cab through the floor. It seems like Prince makes hydraulic valves that are servo controlled (and have options for manual controls too!).

I'm wondering if the bed/pump off of a 5 ton would be a good idea (and if it would fit) or is it overkill. Or if the 2.5 ton hoist would be better based on size/weight.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Why don't you just buy my HEMTT crane and then you can lift the shelter,etc.

 

[rmgill]

I suspect you want more than I'm able to afford for a crane right now.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Ryan
I believe the pumps put out the same pressure. What you need to look at is the cylinder. The larger diameter the piston, the more the cyl. will lift at a given pressure.
You can use almost any commercial pump and hoist assy. The military stuff is just civvy stuff painted green in the case of these items.

 

[Capt.Marion]

joe scheaffer might have some ideas on this too... he knows his shit

 

[StrykerPerry]

I plan to do this to mine i will be putting a dump hoist under the bed and a hydraulic winch front and rear on the frame also on the bed i plan to run 2 pulleys in the front with cables hooked together at the end to run under the bed to the winch hook so i can use the rear winch to pull stuff in the bed also the s280 im getting has tow hooks at the bottom on the front so when the bed is tilted up i plan for it to be winched in with the 2 cables and the 2 cables stay mounted to the bed and unhook the winch after tying the shelter in place so i can use it to pull stuff onto trailers or recover vehicle including myself

 

[m16ty]

Here is what I did- http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...r-and-bed-winch-skid-loading-setup&highlight=

 

[rustystud]

Here is what I did- http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...r-and-bed-winch-skid-loading-setup&highlight=

We're still waiting for the loading video you promised.

 

[tobyS]

I can help with hydraulic sizing, pump and valve.

My PTO mount pump is for A3. I doubt if a direct mount will fit the earlier model. It also looks like a driveshaft driven pump is hard to fit with the transfer case.

I have a few 24 vdc modular valves and sub-bases too. Also, I have a 24vdc pump, which I think you will find is very slow (but will work fine for occasional use).