FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[Couchoffroad]

Mog ****...

 

[The FLU farm]

Alright, Bison, here's an idea for your snowblower situation. I have a very lightly used Paladin 72" 'blower for a low-flow Bobcat for sale.
It will run fine on the SEES's rear hydraulics, and you could just strap it into the loader bucket (or bolt it in), run the hoses to the rear and go.
The way I see it, it'll help with two of your issues. One, being only a 6-footer (which I know you prefer) it won't require as much power to run. Secondly, by putting it inside the bucket you'll still kind of clear a path suitable for the width of the SEE.

Personally I would not want to run a bucket, blade, or snow blower that is narrower than the vehicle it is attached to, for several reasons, but since you want it narrow this could be an option. Yes, I know it's not the dual-fan kind that you want, but at $4,600 it may save you some $15,000, maybe $20,000 - not counting the new pump you'd need for your preferred (too narrow) dual-fan 'blower.

 

[The FLU farm]

View attachment 666223Mog ****...

Now I have garage envy. There was a time when I could fit trailers inside, too.

 

[Mark1954]

Thanks for the for the heads up!

 

[Speedwoble]

That's a nice solid looking tool, but it looks more like some kind of swaging clamp.

I can't really picture it; how exactly does it work to "slide" fittings INTO the hose?

The tool clamps the hose tight on one side and is relieved for the hose to expand on the other side. Clamp hose in the tool and smack the fittings in with a rubber mallet.

 

[BigBison]

Working on the AC wiring for my service body, today. I have two "load groups" for AC, shore powered and inverter powered. I don't want to run the block heater off the inverter. I don't want to run it all night, either. Or if it's too warm. I always want the Dodge plugged in to keep the LA batteries topped up by the inverter's charger. I don't want the fancy, optional whizbang electronic/wireless controller with fleet-management integration for the Webasto hydronic heaters, on the Dodge or the SEE. What I do want, is some simple logic...

*If* it's cold enough out, *then* I want the block (and other AC-powered) heaters to operate from 4am-9am or so, *and* the Webastos to fire up around 6-7am for 30 minutes, even if I'm not going to use the truck that day, in which case I can leave it unplugged. There's the problem -- I need to use DC power to run at least the timers, if not the thermostats (to simplify the wiring runs), or I'll have to "reset the clock" every time I plug into "shore power." Yes, it's possible to use a DC control current to switch an AC primary current through a relay (easier than vice-versa), but I'll admit I had to bone up on the subject a bit, first:

http://www.te.com/commerce/Document...v&DocNm=13C3250_AppNote&DocType=CS&DocLang=EN

Which narrowed the selection down to components designed to handle my needs. So I ordered four of these (two each for the Dodge and the SEE):

http://store.flw.com/products/atc-r...0-s-0-x.html?gclid=CJqulNTIjdICFUK4wAodgHsMLQ

And two of these, one for each truck:

http://store.flw.com/products/atc-r...0-s-0-x.html?gclid=CJqulNTIjdICFUK4wAodgHsMLQ

I also ordered some DIN mounting rails & assorted hardware for that gear. I can't find anything else to my specs, which goes lower than -10*F which is maybe a bit warmer than I'd like to automate things; I'll also be wiring up some override switches (on/off/auto) for intuitive operation of analog systems without any chips/wireless/apps etc. so if I know it's only going to be a little colder than that, I can leave a couple switches off, or just not worry about it if I don't want to get all fiddly.

As it is, both the above electronics will need to operate on 24V DC coil current, to switch 120V AC loads. I already have the step-up converter for the Webasto on the Dodge, but instead of switching the converter on with the hydronic unit, the converter will be doing continuous duty running two timers and a thermostat. With a circuit breaker I can just switch off for the warm months. At 120V, all running, the cold-weather gear (heaters & associated control circuitry both AC and DC) will consume 10-12A max, so that'll be a 15A breaker. I've already installed (well, it's dangling by its wiring until I get a proper-size box to mount it) a 30A main AC breaker, the inverter has a 30A pass-through breaker and a 20A "branch" breaker built-in.

Running the Dodge next to a dead FLU for a couple hours, oughta both charge and warm it enough to start it at 40 below, with both AC and DC cords connected. Say it gets a flat tire on down the road -- I'd have loved to twiddle some knobs before walking away, and have it warmed up by sunrise, or if that didn't work, recovered it with my pickup truck. I'm going to transfer the heated dipstick from the HMMH to the SEE, and figure out the best block (coolant) heater solution -- all Cummins Dodge trucks have block heaters, only if you paid for that option did your truck come with the *power cord* for it, cheaper to pay $20 for the cord than $200 for the option, heheh... Anyway, we're talking about 1500W of electric heat here, fudging between voltages & AC/DC. Those timers will be in the service body on the Dodge, but I'll probably dashboard-mount 'em in the SEE.

The inverter on the Dodge has enough oomph to run the cold-weather gear, but its three LA batteries can't sustain it long enough to run those AC loads -- it's gotta be plugged in, in which case those 24VDC loads are running off the built-in battery charger, not the batteries. OTOH, on the SEE, if I pull the trigger on LiFePO4 batteries I can shop for one heckuva small inverter (the one in the service body barely fits, nowhere to mount it on a FLU, overkill for the FLUs anyway). Stuck overnight nowhere near a power outlet at -30*F, the AC heaters woulda kicked on at 6am, followed at 7:30am by the Webasto, and I woulda started it at 8am instead of removing the hood & pumping away at the fuel primer then cold-cranking the poor thing hundreds of times before my pickup-truck batteries almost gave it up.

The newfangled batteries have the added benefit of not needing to be warmed. So subtract the wattage of a battery blanket from the above scenario, based on real-world experience DD'ing my SEE for a few weeks. Any colder, like say the night before at -40*, reinforcements would've needed calling in much sooner just to get it started to get the tire changed, we'd have been at it much longer. Oooh... or I could just fix the ether-shot system, right?

 

[Another Ahab]

Working on the AC wiring for my service body, today. The newfangled batteries have the added benefit of not needing to be warmed. So subtract the wattage of a battery blanket from the above scenario, based on real-world experience DD'ing my SEE for a few weeks.

How does that feature work?

 

[BigBison]

@FLU farm:

What's the outside diameter of your new tires, compared to stock? You said you got 'em on by having your SEE lift itself, which I could not do (granted, in a less-than-ideal spot) with the stock spare although I got the flat tire off that way. It was so close, though! You went wider, not taller, so I'm curious where your OD wound up?

 

[BigBison]

How does that feature work?

LiFePO4 battery output isn't affected by cold, only the charge rate must be reduced to avoid *poof*. So you don't need to include them in your Arctic/Yampa winter-preheat package, as they don't need to heat themselves, another reason why Lead Acid batteries just can't inverter-power AC oil/coolant heaters -- if it's cold enough to need to do that, you still won't be able to start the truck because cold dead batteries from trying.

I'm more-than-ever in favor of walking up to a stranded-but-working truck in the depths of winter and just not worrying about getting it started, even if I have to flip some switches and wait half an hour. Better that than ether!

 

[BigBison]

Taking another look at the spec sheet for those thermostats I ordered, I see two problems. One, is the temperature range I ordered doesn't have CSA approval... Confederate States of America? Well, I don't live down South so I guess it's OK! The other, is the power they can handle... enough to run a relay, not a block heater. Not back to the drawing board by any means, just adding a relay I'll need to spec out by tomorrow morning and get it ordered, so I can wrap up as much of the service-body wiring as I can until it's swapped onto my running Dodge.

I don't have room to take pictures until I've moved the GMC down to the garage, any day now. Then I'll post what I've wired on the service body, which will have much in common for the next work I do (other than maintenance) on the SEE, then get applied to the HMMH and the dually (once it has a crate motor installed). Methods, components, and much of the electrical engineering will be identical across my little fleet, mostly so's I can handle the operation and upkeep over however many years God graces me to have left with my deteriorating back and mental faculties. Doin' my homework now!

 

[BigBison]

Heard back from tech support for the thermostat. I oughta be OK without wiring in a relay. Depends on more detailed specs on the Webasto than I have available to me, without hearing back from their tech support. All I know is the hydronic unit pulls 2.6A. If no more than 2A of that is inductive vs. resistive, I can KISS. But there are two (inductive) motors on the Webasto, for coolant & fuel, plus a (resistive) glow-plug to ignite the fuel/air mix, but no telling how they break down in current draw, which makes all the difference in what the thermostat relay can do.

 

[The FLU farm]

@FLU farm:

What's the outside diameter of your new tires, compared to stock? You said you got 'em on by having your SEE lift itself, which I could not do (granted, in a less-than-ideal spot) with the stock spare although I got the flat tire off that way. It was so close, though! You went wider, not taller, so I'm curious where your OD wound up?

Nominal size of the Pitbulls is 39.5x16.50, and they look about the same as the Michelins in height, so a bit taller than I wanted. Haven't compared Static Loaded Radius, though, which is what really counts. But I do remember that the tread width was increased by about 45%, which helps immensely with achieving the lower contact pressure I crave.

So far, the most impressive part was that they worked great in snow about 18 inches deep, in 2WD. When turning sharply and making each tire create its own track, they needed 4WD.

Oh, and in the rear the outriggers can lift them about eight inches too high, in the front the margin was maybe four inches. Needless to say, that was with the bucket curled out, or there wouldn't be enough lift in the loader.

 

[BigBison]

Nominal size of the Pitbulls is 39.5x16.50, and they look about the same as the Michelins in height, so a bit taller than I wanted. Haven't compared Static Loaded Radius, though, which is what really counts. But I do remember that the tread width was increased by about 45%, which helps immensely with achieving the lower contact pressure I crave.
View attachment 666438
So far, the most impressive part was that they worked great in snow about 18 inches deep, in 2WD...

The most impressive thing so far, is how badass those tires look on your SEE!

Oh, and in the rear the outriggers can lift them about eight inches too high, in the front the margin was maybe four inches. Needless to say, that was with the bucket curled out, or there wouldn't be enough lift in the loader.

Needless to say, you were on level ground? I didn't get close to that kind of lift on the side of an unpaved, crowned county road because the truck didn't lift up on level. It's a FAQ if these FLUs can lift themselves up to change a tire. I'm starting to think the answer is "yes, maybe, depending" on whether it's level. Level, I can lift the stock wheel off the ground even if it isn't flat. Crowned road, the truck "fights itself" so to speak.

 

[BigBison]

The only vehicle I've ever owned that just doesn't care about -40* is my '95 Prelude. Why I keep it, I suppose. Doesn't bat an eyelash at being asked to cold-cold-start. This morning at 11am I wanted to drive my truck, it was just above freezing and I had puddles on the driveway, but it was -20*F last night, so the Dodge whined and needed lots of cranking to start, as it wasn't plugged in overnight. The SEE woulda needed ether this morning, but started no problem this afternoon. Around here, even if it's mid-40's during the day, the nights are still cold enough to want auxiliary pre-heat. I wish I wasn't still sick after three weeks, or these Webasto hydronic units would already be installed on the Dodge and the SEE, hopefully I'll git 'er done before winter's over so I don't have to wait months and months to evaluate them.

 

[BigBison]

Ooops. I posted the same link twice yesterday, here's the one for the thermostat:

http://www.enclosureclimatecontrol.com/01131-0-00-etr011-electronic-thermostat-spdt-20-to-60-c-230v/

 

[Foxyjosh]

Ok, I am at it again, have tack working though at times looses ground, temp gauge now works, NO fluid in the clutch reservoir need to find where it went, maybe the rat drank it, had to put the pto engaged then start the engine, rolled the backhoe to work position, have two froze control levers, still have some wiring issues, no air build yet.

Now some questions,
1--Is dot 5 used ?
2--Does anybody have a brake/clutch reservoir cap, rat ate part of the cap and lost one of the contacts
3--Does anybody have a good oil pressure sender, still can not get the oil pressure gauge to work, so I want to start with a sender that works, then fix or run new wires to the gauge.

The more I work on this POS, the gladder I am that IT DO NOT OWN IT.

1-- Yes
2-- I have an extra one.
3-- I do not.

4-- I need the switch that is under the clutch pedal. Does anyone have an extra one or know where I can get one?

 

[BigBison]

If anyone is interested I can try to post up a how to?

I would suggest, to any vendor trying to deal with members of any vehicle forum, not bringing up this sort of thing unless & until you're actually *ready* to follow through. I think the FLU OG here is still waiting for something other than excuses from you, as to why this has actually been too much trouble for you to have done by now? Follow through, don't string along, is my major piece of advice for your business. Which I wouldn't bring up, except you're bragging in this thread about having a bin of HMMH crane seals for sale -- which were ordered on *my* behalf, but never shipped/billed, so now you're trying to sell them to other FLU owners?!? Why *wouldn't* I be happy about that?

Follow through, Jay, and I'll leave you alone. Three weeks later, all we have here are excuses why you haven't actually posted the information you volunteered to share about bumping up SEE loader pressure. What's up with that? If you have information to share, please do, instead of just teasing -- not very professional. Honestly, I wish you nothing but the best despite we'll never do business again, but some improvements on your end are called for otherwise I'm going to keep calling you a flake, because I've never had any vendor react so badly to feedback concerning, well, flakiness or any other criticism from me. I'm increasingly making friends here I can't *not* warn about your business practices, please don't give me reason.

"Flake" is exactly the right term for you bringing this loader-pressure thing up three weeks ago, and still not having followed through. I know you're upset about my opinion of you, but coming here to be a flake in response isn't going to shut me up about it. You simply need to do better in dealing with folks I'm increasingly getting to know, and can't just leave twisting in the wind for thinking they can rely upon you to put your money where your mouth is, without me saying something. Like hey, it's been three weeks since you posted about this, and all we have since are excuses why you haven't -- you shouldn't need me, or anyone else, to point this out. You should just git 'er done.

Yeah, I've been drinking. Doesn't change my opinion, just makes me more willing to post it. Had you followed through on this issue by now, this post wouldn't have been made. Drum up business somewhere else, or try to have me banned from here for posting this -- I'd think the former would be more profitable for you and a larger benefit to the community of FLU owners, but you're somewhat of a hothead; which wouldn't concern me if you'd followed through on new seals for that leaky HMMH crane you sold me as some sort of priority instead of blowing it off.

 

[The FLU farm]

Needless to say, you were on level ground? I didn't get close to that kind of lift on the side of an unpaved, crowned county road because the truck didn't lift up on level. It's a FAQ if these FLUs can lift themselves up to change a tire. I'm starting to think the answer is "yes, maybe, depending" on whether it's level. Level, I can lift the stock wheel off the ground even if it isn't flat. Crowned road, the truck "fights itself" so to speak.

Well, the outriggers can obviously only lift a SEE so far, but the backhoe is good for lifting the rear end several feet off the ground. The loader would then have to provide balance. Not level? The backhoe would have to be swung to the side accordingly.
To get the front up, as mentioned earlier, curl the bucket out completely for extra lift (and better leverage), extend the backhoe to shift weight to the rear and then lower the loader to lift the front tires off the ground. Not level? Again, use the backhoe to compensate.
At least that's how I did it for the tire changes, and basically how I get the SEE across ditches, along side slopes too steep to just drive, etc. Yeah, it's time consuming to get out and move the outriggers and backhoe while traversing a sidehill, sometimes every few feet, but it's still quicker than trying to upright it after it falls over. And I'm getting better at judging its limits - or, perhaps more accurately, over confident.
Disclaimer: lifting the front as described above only works with a fully functional loader, not with a lame one as on my original SEE.

Edited for spelling.

 

[The FLU farm]

I need the switch that is under the clutch pedal. Does anyone have an extra one or know where I can get one?

Are you sure? Just out of curiosity, why do you want that switch to be operational?
I'm about to remove one that doesn't always make contact, making me have to push it in by hand. It may be misadjusted, or have some corrosion that makes it unreliable, but either way I haven't thought of a good reason to keep it.

 

[BigBison]

Well, the outriggers can obviously only lift a SEE so far, but the backhoe should is good for lifting the rear end several feet off the ground. The loader would then have to provide balance. Not level? The backhoe would have to be swung to the side accordingly.

OK, which I couldn't do without smashing fences & chicken coops both places I got stuck, at that particular time of year. The last thing I wanted to do that day, was call up my buddy to go fetch the big floor jack! I've never been in a position to use the hoe to jack the SEE, glad you have, because if you can't then the loader & stabilizers will come about 1/2" short unless your new tires aren't as tall as the stock ones! I promise you I wanted to use the hoe to jack the truck, I just couldn't without damaging neighbor property, at which point I'll do whatever it takes to avoid that ya know?

To get the front up, as mentioned earlier, curl the bucket out completely for extra lift (and better leverage), extend the backhoe to shift weight to the rear and then lower the loader to lift the front tires off the ground.

Interesting thing about the SEE, is the backhoe is off-center on the truck. I didn't notice this, or the fact that the passenger-side stabilizer's actually longer, until I used it to jack myself further into the ditch! Tilted at roadside, let's just say this doesn't work to one's advantage! Also, as I mentioned before, my loader doesn't reach the end of its travel before it goes to "float" regardless of what I'm doing with the control lever. I don't know enough about hydraulics yet to figure this one out, maybe it's up to spec I just don't know, but my loader alone (even curled down) couldn't lift the SEE that extra 1/2" I needed to mount the spare tire. Maybe my loader's "lame"? I don't know.

A good practice exercise for any FLU owner, is changing a tire. I've seen this question asked about the HMMH and the SEE, but despite owning each, I don't know if I can get either one to lift its own tires off the ground to change 'em out unless on level ground with plenty of operating clearance all around. Yet. I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes" on level ground, but my difficulties so far haven't exactly occurred on level ground, so at this point all I can say about swapping the one flat tire, is no I'm afraid my SEE didn't lift itself quite far enough to make that a one-man show.