FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[Gringo]

I finally got my 419 about a week ago. Found one in good shape compared to most of them I had been seeing for sale lately. Rebuild was in Nov 2008, odometer had 123 miles and works, and the plates/tags seem to indicate that a new loader and backhoe were put on in 2008. That being said it did/still needs a new hose for the backhoe and door handle or at least the little round piece that you push in to open the door and a gear shift knob if I can find one. Also, it did not come with any of the auxiliary tools which was surprising for how clean and kept the rest of the vehicle was. Headliner looks brand new.


Anyhow, was doing some cleanup around the edges of the pond and after a while it started bogging down. Then I noticed the PSI had dropped below 90lbs and I was no longer in 4wd. Started working my way out with the backhoe and using the loader occasionally, mostly to hold my gains from the hoe while I repositioned etc... Was making pretty good headway when suddenly the front-loader quit working or at least it will not raise up. The down lever did seem to work but since I didn't really want to lower the bucket I only bumped it down once very quickly so not sure if it was just releasing when it went the bucket lowered slightly. Also lost power steering.

After a little help from a large tractor I got it back to the Barn and started troubleshooting. Had two of the belts come completely off, so that explained the Power steering loss and got it working again after finally coercing the belts back into place. I briefly assumed that this would also fix the problems I was having with getting the loader to lift up, but was mistaken as it is still dead. No movement or sounds when pushing the lever control. This only happened about 5 hours ago and I focused on the getting the Belts back on first so I have not done a thorough trouble-shoot on it yet, but did notice that some significant fluid/oil had leaked out from the top of the front passenger wheel-well area.

I'm still pretty new at this, has anyone had a similar occurrence with the loader or at least the raise bucket function/control on the loader going out? It had been working fine in all directions for several days until today.

Glad to finally become a bona-fide member of this group and eventually I hope to contribute to the forum at least as much as I receive in due course.

Also looking for a quick-attach type adapter or similar system/configuration as I had my eyes on a Tree-Puller to clear some medium brush assuming I cant get the loader working.

Many thanks.

 

[Gringo]

Sorry, I meant assuming I CAN get the Loader working correctly. Obviously I would not have joined this group without a CAN do attitude

 

[The FLU farm]

That you lost power steering and the front hydraulics is fairly obvious without the belts, but why the heck did the belts come off???
If you were in something deep enough to derail the belts, then the already leak prone drain valves on the air tanks were likely disturbed, and there went your air pressure, 4WD, etc.

I used a Titan quick attach on my loader, but in retrospect, while it was easier to adapt the version with the cross bar, the cheaper one with separate left and right parts could've made it all a bit more compact. As it is, the loader bucket is now about six inches farther forward.

 

[FarmMOG]

I looked for the front and rear filters initially, and found them to be painfully expensive. Thankfully, once I pulled one out I realized that there's no reason to replace them, just treat them to a simple cleaning - if even that is necessary.
Never did see even a spec of dirt on any of them, so in your case a flushing of the system may be in order.

I ended up cleaning the one I had. Thanks for the tip. There was some darker oil that was on the outside of the filter, but it all cleaned up nicely. The whole front hydraulic system still is generating heat, so not sure what could be causing this. Any ideas.

 

[rtrask]

I have a broken tee on the fuel supply line.



In the parts manual TM 5-2420-224-24-P-1 pg 0026 00-2 it is labeled 34, an joins hoses 30 and 35

I think this is going to be an on going struggle with the cheap plastic lines and aging nylon fittings. I am looking for y'alls opinions. Would the best course forward be to replace hose and fittings with new versions of the same stuff, or replace it with rubber lines and metal fittings and clamps etc.

One factor in this decision is availability of metric fittings and hoses. Do any of you have a good source for these?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[peakbagger]

I haven't had any issues with my front hydraulics but if the fluid is heating up you have one of two issues, some component is creating resistance in the fluid circuits or the hydraulic cooler fan is not working. There is a known issue with SEEs that the hydraulic cooler fans failed due to water leaking into grommets. The fan only runs when the fluid gets warm enough. The electrical troubleshooting has some very good diagnostics on the fan system. (Unfortunately there is no source of new fans unless you want to buy the entire unit. I just bought 24 volt truck cooling fans and retrofitted the mounts)

These diagrams came from the technical download forums from a student handbook that a member uploaded. They may be helpful (as are all the other diagrams that are not in the official services manuals)

I would ensure that the fan and thermostat is working and then my next guess would be look for something plugging the device labeled "CHOKE" .
View attachment FLU419 front hydraulics.pdfView attachment FLU419 front bucket hydraulics.pdf

 

[The FLU farm]

One factor in this decision is availability of metric fittings and hoses. Do any of you have a good source for these?

Bel-Metric has everything you need, and then some. Ask for Matt. He's the guy with not only the hardware, but also Unimog knowledge.

 

[peakbagger]

I have a broken tee on the fuel supply line.

View attachment 706754

In the parts manual TM 5-2420-224-24-P-1 pg 0026 00-2 it is labeled 34, an joins hoses 30 and 35

I think this is going to be an on going struggle with the cheap plastic lines and aging nylon fittings. I am looking for y'alls opinions. Would the best course forward be to replace hose and fittings with new versions of the same stuff, or replace it with rubber lines and metal fittings and clamps etc.

One factor in this decision is availability of metric fittings and hoses. Do any of you have a good source for these?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

FYI, there are a couple of military services advisories on the fitting you show being broken by folks removing the engine hatch incorrectly. I dont think many of us have a spare person help us. Unfortunately the advisory is pretty much be careful to avoid breaking it. Reportedly Belmetrics (whose owners own Unimogs) stock the Mercedes fuel line material and probably fittings to go with it. Its strictly a slide on friction fit. Eventually as the lines age they can loosen up at the joints leading to leaks under vacuum. I slide a short piece of fuel slit air line over the barbed fitting and then a hose clamp in some places and put in new diesel rated fuel hose. The trick is cut off the plastic fuel line at the barb, its OD matches up with 3/8" fuel hose. Use the good wrap around clamps.

 

[The FLU farm]

I haven't had any issues with my front hydraulics but if the fluid is heating up you have one of two issues, some component is creating resistance in the fluid circuits or the hydraulic cooler fan is not working.

I would ensure that the fan and thermostat is working and then my next guess would be look for something plugging the device labeled "CHOKE" .
View attachment 706753View attachment 706752

I've never had the front system get hot, either. Heck, I can barely get the rear one warm enough to turn on the fans. Except with the snow blower, which is constant, full power.
Then again, I rarely use the loader.

My guess would be a restriction of some sort, somewhere. Assuming that the fluid is of the correct viscosity to start with.

 

[quickster]

New owner of an SEE up in Canada
lots of work to do:
Replace brake system currently Booster is toast and the mater cyl is missing
Replace Clutch master cyl somebody installed a standard brake master cyl and its hard as **** on the hip
Replace all headlights
Fix leaky Power steering pump

 

[Speedwoble]

I have a broken tee on the fuel supply line.
...In the parts manual TM 5-2420-224-24-P-1 pg 0026 00-2 it is labeled 34, an joins hoses 30 and 35
...
One factor in this decision is availability of metric fittings and hoses. Do any of you have a good source for these?

Bel-metric is great, but they do not have this very part! 6-4-6 reducing T. I finally found them in England and ordered 5. $5 shipped to your door if anyone wants one.

I am partial to the hard lines used by Mercedes because I don't like how rubber lines age. I was also lucky enough to find the special tool to make the hard lines and it is so simple to put one together and forget about it. Also much cleaner than hose clamps.
I sent out a bunch of the banjo fittings and got them re-zinced, so I have a small stockpile if I need to make any. Maybe I should start to offer a fuel line making service on exchange?

 

[quickster]

i also need to do an alignment but i think the drag link has been replaced which is causing the problem if someone could give me a measurement of their drag link and tie rod it would be most appreciated.

 

[Speedwoble]

This is an open center hydraulic system, so if nothing is being used, the fluid circulates through with minimal resistance and returns to the tank. There is very low pressure in the system until it is used. Pumps create flow, the load determines the pressure. If you move a valve, the fluid is diverted to that need and pressure goes up. If the pressure gets too high(more fluid is being pumped than used, the pressure relief will activate and convert the excess energy to heat.

Is your auxilary circuit on with the hoses not clipped together?
Is a loader valve sticking in the partially on position?

I haven't had any issues with my front hydraulics but if the fluid is heating up you have one of two issues, some component is creating resistance in the fluid circuits or the hydraulic cooler fan is not working. There is a known issue with SEEs that the hydraulic cooler fans failed due to water leaking into grommets. The fan only runs when the fluid gets warm enough. The electrical troubleshooting has some very good diagnostics on the fan system. (Unfortunately there is no source of new fans unless you want to buy the entire unit. I just bought 24 volt truck cooling fans and retrofitted the mounts)
These diagrams came from the technical download forums from a student handbook that a member uploaded. They may be helpful (as are all the other diagrams that are not in the official services manuals)

 

[Speedwoble]

I have been doing some digging within the Case Parts system because someone asked me about seal kits.

FWIW, The backhoe is not truly off of a 580D. The 35C backhoe has its own entry in the CASE parts catalog which lists mfg from 1/88-12/94. This has better overlap with the 580E which was made from 1/83-12/89. The 580D was made 1/80-12/84.

There are two difference swing cylinders depending on the date of mfg and they have different seal kits. The military could have started with one cylinder, then replaced it with a different, thicker walled cylinder once the original was no longer available. The Military parts manual lists the thicker cylinder as the complete replacement unit. I have the parts diagrams when someone needs to rebuild their swing cylinders, but the CASE parts guy can get it by searching for "35C"


The Case bucket cylinder seal kit appears to be G109504 if the cylinder is a 3.5" bore. The reason I say "appears" is that there is some reference to a different cylinder depending on whether there is one pin, or two pins attaching the boom to the swing tower. There is also a 4" bore cylinder, but that is not the one used on the SEE according to the military manual. This would be an option for those looking for more bucket power

 

[Migginsbros]

New owner of an SEE up in Canada
lots of work to do:

A warm welcome from oversees.
What about your backhoe. The laid down position looks strange in first pic.

 

[Migginsbros]

A warm welcome from oversees.
What about your backhoe. The laid down position looks strange in your first pic.

 

[quickster]

Thanks for the welcome
the first pic was the day i got it home it looks odd because the last owner didn't fold it and lock it in properly.

 

[The FLU farm]

New owner of an SEE up in Canada
Replace all headlights

Welcome, Quickster.

And I hope that by "Replace", you mean with something useful. Besides, the actual headlights are pretty useless no matter what you put in there since the loader covers most of them.

 

[quickster]

Yes they are rather useless but in order to put it on the road i have to be compliant with the Canadian safety standards i probably just throw in some cheep LED's on the bottom and put better ones on the top. first things first though i need some brakes its not verry fun using the bucket for brakes... LOL

 

[rtrask]

Bel-metric is great, but they do not have this very part! 6-4-6 reducing T. I finally found them in England and ordered 5. $5 shipped to your door if anyone wants one.

Well I certainly need one, PM me if you want to sell me one, or let me know your source, and I will order some as well.

I am partial to the hard lines used by Mercedes because I don't like how rubber lines age. I was also lucky enough to find the special tool to make the hard lines and it is so simple to put one together and forget about it. Also much cleaner than hose clamps.
I sent out a bunch of the banjo fittings and got them re-zinced, so I have a small stockpile if I need to make any. Maybe I should start to offer a fuel line making service on exchange?

Tell me more about the special tool. As many lines as there are going all over the place, I suspect I will need to become proficient at making hard lines as well. As Peakbagger said as the lines age the plastic loosens up and leaks at the joints. I am sure that the regulation way to correct that is to just replace the line and if cheap / easy enough that is probably the best way to fix it. My inclination is to follow Peakbagger's solution though.