SF97

[MAXMAN]

Hey guys! I very recently purchased an M1028 from a guy that bought it 10 years ago at a Government Liquidation. I have all of the auction paperwork, and a "Bill of Sale" from the current entity of Government Liquidation but since they no longer have a government contract they can not supply me with the SF97. The previous owner was too cheap to buy the 97 when he won the auction and thought he would just get it when he was ready or when he sold it. Any help from people in the know would be greatly appreciated!

 

[NDT]

Title service. Will have to start from nothing. Does your state have "bonded titles"? That's how I do it here.

 

[tobyS]

Our state uses the SF97 as a bill of sale. Note GSA does not collect sales tax and when you get the title put in your name, sales tax is due. My dump truck title cost plenty (four years after buying) but the alternative is the problem you now face.

Look on your bill of sale....did state sales tax get paid? If tax was paid, forget the SF 97 and ask for title from the BOS. All my trucks bought at GL had only BOS and I had no problem (after police inspection). But the former owner....or person on the BOS....will have to get the title first.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Vermont.

WA will require a '3 year registration without title', which requires a bond amount that's 1 1/2 times the value of the vehicle. So, if you think it's worth 5 grand, you're gonna get a $7500 bond.

Easier, cheaper, and faster, to go through Vermont, get a title issued, then transfer it into WA as an out of state title.

 

[MAXMAN]

Vermont.

WA will require a '3 year registration without title', which requires a bond amount that's 1 1/2 times the value of the vehicle. So, if you think it's worth 5 grand, you're gonna get a $7500 bond.

Easier, cheaper, and faster, to go through Vermont, get a title issued, then transfer it into WA as an out of state title.

I'm totally good with doing something like that, but not sure how to go about it. Wouldn't I need to be a resident?

 

[TechnoWeenie]

I'm totally good with doing something like that, but not sure how to go about it. Wouldn't I need to be a resident?

Get a title with a Vermont Registration - Chin on the Tank – Motorcycle stuff in Philadelphia.

chin on the tank. Motorcycle stuff in philadelphia

www.chinonthetank.com

 

[VertigoPilot]

Vermont.

WA will require a '3 year registration without title', which requires a bond amount that's 1 1/2 times the value of the vehicle. So, if you think it's worth 5 grand, you're gonna get a $7500 bond.

Easier, cheaper, and faster, to go through Vermont, get a title issued, then transfer it into WA as an out of state title.

Almost, but not exactly. I've gone through this several times in WA with both vehicles and trailers, each time getting a 3-year "ownership in doubt" registration, and each time with no bond required. At the end of the 3-eyar period title can be issued without further hassle.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Almost, but not exactly. I've gone through this several times in WA with both vehicles and trailers, each time getting a 3-year "ownership in doubt" registration, and each time with no bond required. At the end of the 3-eyar period title can be issued without further hassle.

WA law says bond is required to get a title in situations where no title exists. If, for whatever reason, they didn't require the bond, more power to you.

Might be something to try, if you don't need a title for 3 years...

I'd just as soon get it done in VT and have proof of ownership, but that's just me.


Relevant statutes...

RCW 46.12.680: Ownership in doubt—Procedure.

EDIT: I realize we're talking about 2 different things..

One is a bonded title, which gives you proof of ownership...ie a title, but requires a bond.
The other is a 3 year registration without title, which will get it on the road, but has no proof of ownership, so you can't sell it, and does not require a bond.

 

[tobyS]

This is the sellers problem. Seems like this thread has moved into circumventing state laws by going through a state that the op does not live in. NOT GOOD

An interesting read about titles in Wash State is that there is a $529 minimum traffic fine for not transferring title within 30 days when you move there. Am wondering if that applies to MV.

I titled 14 trucks on the bill of sale only, after a police vin inspection. But it has to be the person on the bill of sale, not a third party to title it first. The op has not said if sales taxes were paid, by who and where but if he bought at GL....they were paid. I know my state gives credit for sales tax paid in other states.

If the seller is not willing to go through the title process... In Indiana there is a certain length of time to produce the title or the sale is void. Make this your sellers problem, not yours.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Change a wire or a cable, then get a 'mechanics lein' on the vehicle. It may take a year or so depending on your state's laws, but you will get a title.

 

[VertigoPilot]

WA law says bond is required to get a title in situations where no title exists. If, for whatever reason, they didn't require the bond, more power to you.

Might be something to try, if you don't need a title for 3 years...

I'd just as soon get it done in VT and have proof of ownership, but that's just me.


Relevant statutes...

RCW 46.12.680: Ownership in doubt—Procedure.

EDIT: I realize we're talking about 2 different things..

One is a bonded title, which gives you proof of ownership...ie a title, but requires a bond.
The other is a 3 year registration without title, which will get it on the road, but has no proof of ownership, so you can't sell it, and does not require a bond.

Again, almost but no exactly.

Your reference to RCW 46.12.680 is correct, but the conclusions that you have no ownership and that you can't sell the vehicle are incorrect. Registration recognizes and declares you as the presumptive "registered" owner, and at the end of the three-year period you are required to then obtain a certificate of title. See subpart (5), second sentence:

"At the end of the three-year ownership in doubt period, the owner must apply to the department, county auditor or other agent, or subagent appointed by the director for a certificate of title. The new certificate of title will not include reference to the bond if a bond was filed with the department. "

During the pendency of the three years, you can sell the vehicle the same as any titled vehicle, and then the new registered owner stands in your shoes as having acquired ownership from an interim owner under subpart (6), without any restart of the three-year wait for new title. The process is much simpler than it may seem reading the discussion here.

Hopefully this clears up the common confusion, at least for those seeking new title for vehicles in Washington State.

(Yes, I am a legal professional, and No this is not offered as free legal advice.)

 

[VertigoPilot]

Change a wire or a cable, then get a 'mechanics lein' on the vehicle. It may take a year or so depending on your state's laws, but you will get a title.

The idea is appealing for its seeming simplicity, and may work safely enough in some states, but in Washington at least that scheme could be prosecuted as title fraud, a Class C felony. One cannot be have a mechanic's lien against their own vehicle, and if they enlist an assistant to assert and execute on a lien in collusion, then both are liable for the fraud.

Admittedly, the chance of being caught and prosecuted is low, but the downside risk is hardly justified when the Ownership in Doubt registration and eventual titling achieves the same end result openly and legally.

 

[tobyS]

Thank you VertigoPilot.....that is much clearer. I think this could be a common problem, especially when the owner never titled it and can't find the BOS .

 

[VertigoPilot]

Thank you VertigoPilot.....that is much clearer. I think this could be a common problem, especially when the owner never titled it and can't find the BOS .

Yes, it is a common problem, and in Washington a simple solution, at least for bonafide buyers and sellers who aren't trying to do title washing.
The hypothetical risk to a buyer would be that if they purchase a vehicle without title and obtain the provisional registration on a three-year wait for title, then a titled owner could assert their priority ownership before the expiration of the three years. But, if the vehicle hasn't been titled before, then that risk is moot.

 

[tobyS]

State will keep the copy of BOS so the chances a real owner asserting against a buyer getting any traction seem remote. Hang out your shingle....as a vendor here, please.

 

[VertigoPilot]

Hang out your shingle....as a vendor here, please.

Perish the thought! Paid legal advice can be had most anyplace for a pittance.

 

[MAXMAN]

To clear up at least my end of this I will give more facts! The truck was bought through Government liquidators back in 2010. The then purchaser was too cheap to pay for the SF97 then thinking he would just get one when he was ready to either repair and use or sell. When Govliq lost their contract, that pretty much screwed him for getting the 97. Him and I both exhausted options for the 97 form. I am very aware of the registration for 3 year bullshit here in Washington. Spoke with Vermont vehicle registration department today and they were very helpful and it sounds like this goes on all the time and it's a large chunk of revenue that other states are not getting. It's not cheap, gonna have to pay tax on $5590 plus the registration fee. BUT I will have a Vermont title that I can use to get a Washington title. Worth it to me!

 

[tobyS]

The reason they don't get an SF97 is that, at least in Indiana, with a police vin inspection, they issue title from a bill of sale. Did that 15 times and never once did they say I needed the SF97. They are raking in the tax money from sale of this truck....paid to Gl, paid to Vermont and paid to Washington state.

 

[VertigoPilot]

To clear up at least my end of this I will give more facts! The truck was bought through Government liquidators back in 2010. The then purchaser was too cheap to pay for the SF97 then thinking he would just get one when he was ready to either repair and use or sell. When Govliq lost their contract, that pretty much screwed him for getting the 97. Him and I both exhausted options for the 97 form. I am very aware of the registration for 3 year bullshit here in Washington. Spoke with Vermont vehicle registration department today and they were very helpful and it sounds like this goes on all the time and it's a large chunk of revenue that other states are not getting. It's not cheap, gonna have to pay tax on $5590 plus the registration fee. BUT I will have a Vermont title that I can use to get a Washington title. Worth it to me!

Not to dampen you enthusiasm, but from a legal liability standpoint it doesn't matter how friendly Vermont authorities may be to the scheme, if you're not a resident of that state and you're using that as a mere pass-through to obtain Washington title more easily, then it's Title Washing under this state's laws, which is a Crime (not merely a violation of a rule, but an act that can land you in jail or prison.) The low likelihood of prosecution doesn't eliminate the severity of punishment if you're the unlucky one to experience the frequent uneven application of justice in this state. Please proceed with caution, and perhaps get legal advice from a local attorney you trust. The cost of a half-hour consult would be money well spent.

 

[MAXMAN]

I think I will just part it! Way too much drama here. Sounds to me like some people need other shit to worry about. This State is completely fuched in almost every way, and with people looking out for Inslee and his crew if scumbags it's just easier to make a couple bucks parting it out. Thanks to everyone that tried to help without regard to the flock.