Lucas oil additive

[stumps]

I'm always amazed at some of the odd things that turn up on the internet.
Number one: just exactly who is "Bob the oil Guy" that works for an oil company, apparently his only qualification? Maybe he worked the register down at the local gas station.

"Bob is the oil Guy" is a website that professes to be independent of any oil company. They started out by publishing lab analysis of the various additive packages used in commercial name branded, and store branded oils. They sell nothing. They were started up much like SS, by a group of guys that wanted to know more about the oils they were blindly pouring into their much loved cars.

Welcome

Number two: under what conditions were the tests run? The only data had to do with a PS Ford, nothing to do with his demostration. I can take a bottle of vegatable oil out of the refrigerator, put it into the blender and whip up a batch of Cool Whip. What would that prove about a diesel engine? What RPM was used and it's relation to the real world? A few still photographs don't provide much in the way of scientific results.

That should have been mentioned but wasn't. Judging by the clutter on the bench where the machine lives, I would say room temperature. The test apparatus was obviously derived from the Lucas Oil prop that is carefully positioned on the counters of automotive parts stores across the US. Lucas seems to think it is a valid test, so... fair is fair, I guess...

How valid are all of the testimonials of seat of the pants truck drivers? We get lots of it's quieter, it feels better, it saved numerous transmissions for me, and the like, but no A-B tests, nothing but anecdote. In the course of my browsing around, I have found about a balanced number of accounts of good and bad results from the use of Lucas additives.

The lab tests the federal government had done on the old STP product showed bearings damaged by the extreme viscosity of the additive... The very thing being touted on this thread as being important.. STP was supposed to protect the bearings, but because it was so thick, it could not fit in the tight gaps in the bearings and starved them of needed lubrication. And yet guys like us swore by the stuff!

Number three: the rather limited oil samples? The results were against Schaeffers synthetic oil. Maybe in fairness if he had put Lucas in the Schaeffer's representitive and got the same results, it might mean something.

It costs money to ruin premium oils with different additives. The website is sponsored less well than Steel Soldiers.

Number four: what exactly do open gears spinning in a sump of oil have to do with the conditions inside an engine with pressurized lubrication? The gears just represent the afore mentioned blender whipping air into the liquid. The oil plump pickup is under the surface of the oil in the sump no air to pickup. The oil drains down the sides of the inside of the engine giving it time to lose the entrained air it may have picked up. I'd be more impressed with a sight glass in the oil line of an operating engine.

Lucas touts the additive as being suited for both gears and engines. The first set of tests were with gear oils that worked quite well without the additive, and got buggered with the additive. The second tests were with 15W40 engine oils.

Engines squirt high pressure oil out of the bearings, the wrist pins, and have open gears on the camshaft, distributors, IP's, and in the IP's. The crankshaft splashes in and out of the oil sump, rocker arms fling oil off of their ends... The MF engine specifically sprays oil on the undersides of the pistons to cool the combustion chambers. Even in relatively mild operation, engines whip up the oil quite nicely. To keep the foam to a minimum, the oil contains foam reduction additives. Look at the before and after pictures, the virgin oil's anti foam additive package is working pretty well in the test jig... until the Lucas is added.

Transmissions? Well they have gear stacks much like the test jig. Some of the gears turn really really fast too! We were talking about both applications in this thread.

Number five: to condem all additives because you spun the bearings in one engine is fool hardy in my opinion. What was the history of the engine? How many miles when the Slick 50 was added? What was the RPM and engine temperature at the time the bearings spun? And most of all who bought the theory of powdered Teflon suspended in oil accomplished anything? I've seen more bearings spun by overreving a cold engine than anything else.

I said it took two weeks, and the engine had 150,000 miles on it. Be generous, and stop assuming that I was doing stupid stuff with the PU truck. I drove it the same way before the failure, and I have driven it another 100K after the repair... all with my same conservative fuddy duddy way of driving.

I bought the Slick50 story after hearing a slew of testimonials, much like this Lucas thread. I feared that the teflon would plug the oil filter, but was assured that it was milled finer than the oil filter could stop... I cut open the filter as part of my repair, and it showed no signs of the teflon, but had plenty of carbonized oil foam (which looked really wicked under my microscope). I was in the market for an additive package, because I really liked my truck, and I wanted something to extend the life of its front main bearing. Like most modern truck engines, mine had a severe, unbalanced, belt load due to the accessories, and pollution pumps. I knew from discussions with friends that ran machine shops, that the front bearings on my particular engine model were undersized, and prone to severe wear due to the oil film being squished out of the bearing (by the belt load) during the off times, and scuffing due to the lack of oil pressure at start up... Much like what most MF guys worry about.

My conclusion: somebody, maybe a clever salesman for Schaeffer came up with a way to condem a competitors product to sell more of his.

Use and little common sense and consider the source of anything you see on the web.

I would believe that if Schaeffer was the only oil that was highly regarded by the site, but it isn't. The oils they put the Lucas into are also highly regarded by the site.

Take some time and browse through the site. There is more there than the bar stool talk that we are engaging in here on SS. They actually do testing on the oils, instead of just talking about them.

-Chuck

 

[DUG]

And you know, somehow, that they aren't?

I have had throttles stick on Fords, Dodges, Plymouth's, and Toyota's... and even a Rupp minibike.
-Chuck

You are an unlucky dude indeed. I've never had throttle stick on anything.

My POINT is, I don't blindly trust anyone - not Toyota, nor GM, or Ford or even the big oil companies. You stated something to the effect that if there was something better, big oil would be all over it. I don't buy that. They are in it to make MONEY. So maybe there is something better, maybe not. Maybe Lucas is the greatest thing ever or maybe it's snake oil. I've read what I can find (including the link you provided) and I've decided to try it for myself. Worst case is I'll need an engine, transmission, transfer case and three axles soon. Or maybe it will do nothing. It might even do some good.

I'll decide for myself.

As for Toyota - IMHO they held out as long as they could before getting off their fat a........

Then again, pretty much the same as any other car company would do.

 

[dittle]

Stumps,

Take it easy with the chest pounding I know it all tone of the posts ok. You have not posted any factual data on any of the posts in this thread, just your opinion......which is the same as the rest of us who have posted. You stated you trust "Bob" like you knew him, but I'm not seeing any data on his test either so until specific data is posted I don't trust what I see on that site either.

 

[stumps]

You are an unlucky dude indeed. I've never had throttle stick on anything.

I don't think it really is a matter of luck. I think it is more because I have owned a lot of old iron, and I generally take it well beyond the mileage and time that the manufacturers hoped I would. It is rare the car or truck that I don't take past 200,000 miles. Some get to 300,000 miles. I am still driving the PU truck, and it is closing in on 250,000 miles. It is 24 years old, and spent its entire life outdoors as a work truck, so it truly is a sight!

Toyota. What can I say. NHTSA for some reason has found it in their hearts to force 141 recalls on the big 3 over the last 12 months, and yet they have left Toyota alone for the last 52 years. I truly doubt that Toyota had the political strength, or financial ability to bribe NHSTA over that entire period. My recollection is the first 35 of those years they were the little guy... The last Toyota I owned I took past 200K miles. The engine was rebuilt twice: The first time by the kid that owned it before me (he overrev'd the engine, stretched a cap) and he botched the job, the second time by me. It was still going strong 150K after my rebuild.

I would hope that you would do what you want. I would imagine that I have little or no sway over you. I am offering up a source of information that is better than the barstool boasting that we usually see. If you don't wish to check it out, that is your call. I'll sleep well either way.

-Chuck

 

[stumps]

Hi Dittle,

I wasn't aware that I was chest pounding. I though I was answering the specific objections to my last post.

Try as I might, I haven't figured out a way to answer complicated questions without burning a few words. They are recyclable, so I don't worry to much about the waste... but for you, I'll try harder.

Stumps,

Take it easy with the chest pounding I know it all tone of the posts ok. You have not posted any factual data on any of the posts in this thread, just your opinion......which is the same as the rest of us who have posted. You stated you trust "Bob" like you knew him, but I'm not seeing any data on his test either so until specific data is posted I don't trust what I see on that site either.

I stated I trusted the websites information. That trust has come from reading numerous lab tests they have done in trying to identify the additive packages in the various oils available on the market. Ever wonder if Walmart's oil is any good? Bob's sent it out for analysis and reported exactly what is in it.

Unlike every single other post on this thread, I posted a link to a site that had done some actual testing. I'd sure like to see some others. Do you know of any?

-Chuck

 

[wdbtchr]

"Bob is the oil Guy" is a website that professes to be independent of any oil company. They started out by publishing lab analysis of the various additive packages used in commercial name branded, and store branded oils. They sell nothing. They were started up much like SS, by a group of guys that wanted to know more about the oils they were blindly pouring into their much loved cars.

Welcome
That should have been mentioned but wasn't. Judging by the clutter on the bench where the machine lives, I would say room temperature. The test apparatus was obviously derived from the Lucas Oil prop that is carefully positioned on the counters of automotive parts stores across the US. Lucas seems to think it is a valid test, so... fair is fair, I guess...

How valid are all of the testimonials of seat of the pants truck drivers? We get lots of it's quieter, it feels better, it saved numerous transmissions for me, and the like, but no A-B tests, nothing but anecdote. In the course of my browsing around, I have found about a balanced number of accounts of good and bad results from the use of Lucas additives.

The lab tests the federal government had done on the old STP product showed bearings damaged by the extreme viscosity of the additive... The very thing being touted on this thread as being important.. STP was supposed to protect the bearings, but because it was so thick, it could not fit in the tight gaps in the bearings and starved them of needed lubrication. And yet guys like us swore by the stuff!
It costs money to ruin premium oils with different additives. The website is sponsored less well than Steel Soldiers.
Lucas touts the additive as being suited for both gears and engines. The first set of tests were with gear oils that worked quite well without the additive, and got buggered with the additive. The second tests were with 15W40 engine oils.

Engines squirt high pressure oil out of the bearings, the wrist pins, and have open gears on the camshaft, distributors, IP's, and in the IP's. The crankshaft splashes in and out of the oil sump, rocker arms fling oil off of their ends... The MF engine specifically sprays oil on the undersides of the pistons to cool the combustion chambers. Even in relatively mild operation, engines whip up the oil quite nicely. To keep the foam to a minimum, the oil contains foam reduction additives. Look at the before and after pictures, the virgin oil's anti foam additive package is working pretty well in the test jig... until the Lucas is added.

Transmissions? Well they have gear stacks much like the test jig. Some of the gears turn really really fast too! We were talking about both applications in this thread.
I said it took two weeks, and the engine had 150,000 miles on it. Be generous, and stop assuming that I was doing stupid stuff with the PU truck. I drove it the same way before the failure, and I have driven it another 100K after the repair... all with my same conservative fuddy duddy way of driving.

I bought the Slick50 story after hearing a slew of testimonials, much like this Lucas thread. I feared that the teflon would plug the oil filter, but was assured that it was milled finer than the oil filter could stop... I cut open the filter as part of my repair, and it showed no signs of the teflon, but had plenty of carbonized oil foam (which looked really wicked under my microscope). I was in the market for an additive package, because I really liked my truck, and I wanted something to extend the life of its front main bearing. Like most modern truck engines, mine had a severe, unbalanced, belt load due to the accessories, and pollution pumps. I knew from discussions with friends that ran machine shops, that the front bearings on my particular engine model were undersized, and prone to severe wear due to the oil film being squished out of the bearing (by the belt load) during the off times, and scuffing due to the lack of oil pressure at start up... Much like what most MF guys worry about.
I would believe that if Schaeffer was the only oil that was highly regarded by the site, but it isn't. The oils they put the Lucas into are also highly regarded by the site.

Take some time and browse through the site. There is more there than the bar stool talk that we are engaging in here on SS. They actually do testing on the oils, instead of just talking about them.

-Chuck

If you can cool off long enough, go back and read the starting post. He specifically asked for information from those that had actually used the product and their personal results and opinions. I don't think a bunch of amatures with unknown qualifications playing in their basement fit that requirement.

I find the louder and angrier people argue to make a point, the more doubt they have on the subject.

Just because information is posted on the web doesn't make it right, that's all I said. Everyone has a brain, just use it.

 

[stumps]

David,

Now I am really puzzled! How did you come to the conclusion I was angry, hot, or loud? I don't get it.

I am reaching a point with this group where I cannot post anything without someone feeling the need to criticize me about something.

Am I not welcome on Steel Soldiers?

I kind of need to know because I'd hate to be spending all of this effort trying to be friendly and helpful only to find out that I am doing neither.

-Chuck

 

[Varyag]

I don't have any in my truck yet but I do have it in a few of my other things and it does work really well.

Most reciently I put a bunch in my wife's mini van in the auto-trans and the power steering. It really made a difference in that... a ton. It has 186k on the tranny and it shifts very smooth again. I noticed too when I did the engine oil additive in it that the cold start valve clatter was quite a bit less.

 

[JasonS]

I don't put much stock in "anecdotal" evidence. First off, you have no control group so you don't have any idea what would have happened without the additive. Second, your sample size is far too small to be statistically significant. Third, you are lacking the failure analysis to prove your hypothesis.

 

[paulfarber]

Control groups? Sample size? Internet scientists are the worst.

They took the same display as Lucas has and run it through some tests and got results. The most startling one is the amount of air they were able to entrain in the lucas oil. *MAYBE* you need to reach a critical temp before the lucas oil does what its supposed to do... but from 0 to that critical temp it does bad things.

Hows this... my 1942 jeep has never been rebuilt. Thats 60+ years of army life, then god know what in civvy life, by who know how many owners. STILL running strong. Thats *WAY* before the snake oils that most people are dumping into their engines were even made.

There is *NO* evidence that USING the oil will make your engine into a million miler. There is plenty of evidence that simple changing the oil regularly does work, as do by-pass filters.

What did the Army use? Your trucks are 20-30 years old... did Uncle Sam ever dump additives into the engine or fuel or anywhere? It seems that the proof you seek is sitting in your driveway.

 

[oldshep]

Well stumps, I understand you're frustration. Personally I use the Lucas. My truck so I can do what I want with it. You can do what you want with yours. But this goes to everyone on the site. There are a lot of things people say on here I dont agree with and many things I do agree on. When I find that I disagree i just let it go and say whats the use. I know what works for me so why should I really care.

 

[JasonS]

Control groups? Sample size? Internet scientists are the worst.
.

I have an advanced engineering degree with seven years in product development. What I stated stand as appropriate criticisms of anecdotal claims.

 

[Dragon15601]

My 90's Jeep Comanche has run Lucas products from day one.
The original owner passed it on to the second owner with A jug of Lucas,
Who passed it on to me. 300,000 miles later, it's still running Lucas in the trans, axles,
Transfer case, and engine block. I believe in it.
I will run it in a Deuce when I get one as I use it in every and anything that requires oil.
Them's my 2 cents.

 

[broman78]

Some people have the philosophy of don't introduce an additive package into your oil. Others like to be like to base options via the butt dyno, with no factual data. When it comes down to it he can do what he wants to if the individual owns it.

 

[militarysteel]

one thing as a fact, i viset my brother he is 60 miles away, when i arrived the transmission was hot to the touch, after lucus, in the engine, trans oil, tcase and axles, on the way home i got 3 MPG better on the same tank of fuel and the transmission was just warm when i got back home. I know the stuff works.
and i noticed the air compressor pumped up faster, i have air steering, also it seemed like it was happier going 55 rather then 50. so to recap, i was able to go faster, i was able to get better MPG, made less heat, i'm a happy camper, stick with conventional oils and add lucus.

 

[stumps]

I still can't come to grips with the fact that with such a perfect additive that makes your car/truck run faster, jump higher, get drastically better fuel mileage, and even run cooler, that the government doesn't mandate that we all use Lucas in our cars/turcks. Just think of all of the resources that would be saved with the stroke of a pen!

Car manufacturers spend gadzillions of dollars making their Corporate Average Fuel Economy numbers work out. All they would have to do is add a couple of bucks of Lucas, and Voila! Their CAFE numbers would be up 10 to 15%! Plus, their customers would be so happy because their cars would last nearly forever without ever needing service!

I know, I know

-Chuck

 

[FireFighterHill]

Im sorry guys but im with Stumps on this one. Every performance racer ive ever talked to says the best thing you can do for a engine is change the fluids and filters frequently.

 

[DUG]

I still can't come to grips with the fact that with such a perfect additive that makes your car/truck run faster, jump higher, get drastically better fuel mileage, and even run cooler, that the government doesn't mandate that we all use Lucas in our cars/turcks. Just think of all of the resources that would be saved with the stroke of a pen!

Car manufacturers spend gadzillions of dollars making their Corporate Average Fuel Economy numbers work out. All they would have to do is add a couple of bucks of Lucas, and Voila! Their CAFE numbers would be up 10 to 15%! Plus, their customers would be so happy because their cars would last nearly forever without ever needing service!

I know, I know

-Chuck

Do Oil Additives Really Work

Another opinion. For every website you post that says an additive doesn't work, I can find one that says they do. This site has a few anwers to why government doesn't mandate them or why OEMs don't require them.

Bottom line is I write the checks here and I say where my money goes. I've ordered some Lucas and I'm gonna dump it on in. If I think it works, I'll post that and why. If I think it doesn't I'll do the same.

I'm not gonna sit here and wait for the government to mandate something or for big oil to come up with something better - those are some of the most screwed up people out there.

Yup, let's all sit right here and wait for the oil companies to invent something better or for congress to mandate what we put in the crankcase.

NOT!

 

[militarysteel]

no one is talking drastic, from hot to warm, 3 MPG, and your components last longer. nothing earth shattering just good practice, along with normal fluid changes when needed.

 

[paulfarber]

Engineers are the last people I want to take my advice from. Just about EVERY snake oil you can pour in your engine has been debunked.

There *ARE* case studies of public transit buses that went on for YEARS on nothing but dino oil and with regular oil testing they show that engines work fine on oil.

If you want to avoid dry starts, get a prelube. If you want longer oil intervals then use a synthetic oil. If you want minimum oil changes use a bypass filter and test the oil regularly and let THAT tell you when your additives are all used up. If you want cooler trannys then use a lighter weight oil. The Army in the 40's switched from 140 to 90 weight becuase it was cooler running.. by just changing the 'weight' of the oil you can lower temps.

This is all common sense.

If you think you are going faster, running cooler, look thinner and have a thicker head of hair becuase you put X, Y or Z into your oil.. OK. Run with that.

Politics, religion and engine oil.....