MEP-003A wire size and governor setting questions?

[Polycop]

I've got a line on some SO 6/4 cable (#6 conductor / 4 conductors) which is supposed to be good for 55 amps @ $1.50 a foot (used). Since the 003A is good for 52 amps and I was planning on using a 50 amp breaker on the transfer switch and not more than 75 to 100' from the gen to the transfer switch. Is #6 wire big enough with the surges and and such or should I try and locate some #4?

My governor and/or high/low speeds needs to be adjusted and once I get a frequency meter I'm going to adjust it. Per the TM the low speed is 1600 rpm with a Hz of 53.3 (if my math is right) and a high speed of 2000 rpm with a Hz of 66.6. Is there anything wrong with my thinking / math of of Hz vs RPM? Do you have to take the fan shroud off to adjust it or just reach in? Is there a way to tighten up the speed control knob so it doesn't spin in on it's own due to the engine vibration?

 

[Speddmon]

If you're not running more than 75 to 100 feet the 6/4 will be just fine for your application.

I haven't had to adjust the governor before, so I don't know if you need to take the shroud off or not, but remember if you do, to only run if for a few minutes at a time. The reason for this is because that shroud is an integral part of the cooling system of the engine. And your math is pretty much spot on with the RPM/frequency relationship....30 RPM's per Hz.

I'm sorry, I haven't had a chance to look at the throttle cable on mine to see if there is a way to tighten it up, like I said I would earlier. I will get to it sooner or later though.

 

[Polycop]

Well, I picked up the 6/4 SO cord today and Monday I'm picking up some pin sleeve connectors to attach to the wire / transfer switch.

After getting the wire, I spent the afternoon working on the 003a.

Loose speed control:
Long story short, I got the loose speed control veneer cable tightened up (after taking it all apart / off the machine). I ended up wrapping about 4"s of 1/8" rope under the front nut that held the cable / knob on the machine. Once it was tightened down the rope added friction to the shaft keeping it from turning (kind of like a jam nut).

Setting the high / low engine speed:
My set was running at 62 Hz with the speed control all the way in and 68 Hz with it all the way out (both were not what they should be). My target was 53.3 Hz for the low (1600 rpm) and 66.6 for the high (2000 rpm). I followed the TM instructions and still couldn’t get the low speed slower than 62 Hz. After studying the governor mechanism for a bit, I ended up adjusting the bolt on the slotted shaft on the solenoid right next to the IP, which got the low speed right where it needed to be. Now my attention was turned to the high speed, even with the adjustment screw on the front of the machine all the way in I was still getting too high a speed of 68hz (however I’m not really going to worry too much about it).

Running the engine to check the Hz and volts:
Once I got everything set, I adjusted the Hz to 62 and the volts to 120, via my plug and play $22 Hz/volts meter from eBay. Prior to plugging it into the generator I had tested it with my house power and found that the Hz and volts were pretty steady. Once I plugged it into the generator, I was pleasantly surprised that the volts and Hz were rock solid, very similar to commercial power. I’ve still got to test it with a load bank for some sort to check the governor response (I’ll do that later).

Other issues:
I found that the Hz meter on the machine quit working and pegged all the way to the right (I’m not going to worry about it much as I have my plug and play meter). I noticed that there was some water / condensation in the battery charge meter, I’ll have to address that later (maybe drill a small weep hole to drain the water). I’m still waiting for my hour meter to come from Delks ($15 plus shipping).

Now it won’t start:
Here’s the big issue, after running it for an hour or so, I shut it down to show the wife how to start it. Much to my dismay, no matter how hard I tried I just couldn’t get it to start (the wife rolled her eyes). I noticed that the oil pressure would only come up to around 10 psi (running oil pressure was 30-40 psi) and I’m thinking the low oil pressure was preventing it from starting. I’m also thinking that the oil was warm and very thin causing the pressure to bleed down very quickly. I’ll try it again tomorrow after it cools down, should this be the case how do you guys get them to start when they are warm?

That’s it for now…

 

[DieselBob]

Now it won’t start:
Here’s the big issue, after running it for an hour or so, I shut it down to show the wife how to start it. Much to my dismay, no matter how hard I tried I just couldn’t get it to start (the wife rolled her eyes). I noticed that the oil pressure would only come up to around 10 psi (running oil pressure was 30-40 psi) and I’m thinking the low oil pressure was preventing it from starting. I’m also thinking that the oil was warm and very thin causing the pressure to bleed down very quickly. I’ll try it again tomorrow after it cools down, should this be the case how do you guys get them to start when they are warm?

That’s it for now…

When you say it won't start, do you mean it cranks ok but will not run or it won't even crank. Not trying to sound ignorant but I have heard different meanings from different people. If the engine cranks ok the first thing to check is the fuel shutoff solenoid. Does the solenoid retract when you crank the starter. Mine needs at least 20+ volts for the solenoid to retract.

 

[Speddmon]

You may be experiencing the same problem my buddy Kipman is/was having. He couldn't get himself out of the habit of letting go of the start switch as soon as the engine fires. Even when the set is warmed up, you need to hold that start switch on, for up to 10 seconds, until the oil pressure comes up above the low pressure setting.

I'm glad to hear you get the cable tightened up and the governor somewhat adjusted.

 

[Polycop]

When you say it won't start, do you mean it cranks ok but will not run or it won't even crank. Not trying to sound ignorant but I have heard different meanings from different people. If the engine cranks ok the first thing to check is the fuel shutoff solenoid. Does the solenoid retract when you crank the starter. Mine needs at least 20+ volts for the solenoid to retract.

The fuel pumps work and the starter turns over, it just won't start. I'll have to check the solenoid in the morning. It's odd it was working just fine right before I turned it off..

 

[Polycop]

You may be experiencing the same problem my buddy Kipman is/was having. He couldn't get himself out of the habit of letting go of the start switch as soon as the engine fires. Even when the set is warmed up, you need to hold that start switch on, for up to 10 seconds, until the oil pressure comes up above the low pressure setting.

I'm glad to hear you get the cable tightened up and the governor somewhat adjusted.

I cranked it for 10 seconds while watching the oil pressure gage. It would build up to 10 psi and once I stopped cranking the oil pressure would immediately drop back down to zero. However when it was cold (first start of the day) I would crank it and the oil pressure would come up and stay up while I let the starter cool between cranks until it started.

Odd, I'm guessing tomorrow will tell the tale (starting it when it's cold)....

 

[Isaac-1]

All sorts of things tend to act up after the first good run on an engine after they have been sitting up, I recently had one on a JD diesel where the temperature gauge worked on first run, then stopped/ read very low, turned out to be a bad ground point at the sender. (it, along with the high temp safety switch were screwed into a machined thermostat bypass manifold held to the engine with 2 bolts, one rusty exhaust manifold bolt and the other to the thermostat housing, not exactly a good design).

Ike

 

[steelandcanvas]

Monday I'm picking up some pin sleeve connectors to attach to the wire / transfer switch. That’s it for now…

Sounds as though you are on the right track, but I have a suggestion. The pin and sleeve connectors are very spendy, and this was the route I was going to go. I did find a replacement connector and plug that would handle the same current, be NEC legal, and cheaper. The rating is 125/250 Volt 50 Amp. These are the same connectors contractors use on large job-sites for temporary power cords. Grainger, Fastenal, and your local electrical wholesaler will have these in stock. Just an idea.
The part # for the connector: CS63-64C The plug is: CS63-65C

 

[Speddmon]

The fuel pumps work and the starter turns over, it just won't start. I'll have to check the solenoid in the morning. It's odd it was working just fine right before I turned it off..

Is it cranking only an not firing, or firing and not staying running?

If you're thinking it's an oil pressure switch issue, take the connector off of the oil pressure switch (the switch is located right at the oil filter housing, the connector is a few inches up the wires) and stick a piece of wire in the pins to short the connector together (effectively jumping out the pressure switch). If the oil pressure is your problem, then it should stay running after you let go of the start switch. However, 10 PSI of pressure sounds about right for a cranking but non firing engine.

After you check the solenoid, look at the fuel shut-off rod where it goes into the IP...If it's all gummed up and not moving freely that'll keep you from starting too. If that seems to be an issue you may end up having to pull the IP to clean it up. It could possibly be gummed up on the inside of the IP, it's probably one of the more common reasons for a non starting engine.

 

[Polycop]

The Good…
I’ve got the starting problem figured out; it seems that the linkage on the fuel stop solenoid was binding just a bit. As I was turning the start switch with my left hand I just had to reach around and bump the solenoid linkage with my right hand and it fired to life (I can live with it). I tried it a couple of times to confirm that, that was the problem and it was.

I found that mice really love a nice dry spot under a generator / tarp (this was remedied via a well placed screwdriver toss).

The hz meter kind of fixed itself (it works right sometimes and sometimes it pegs to the right, go figure).

I drilled a hole in the bottom of the battery charge meter to get rid of the condensation that was in it.

The Not So Good…
In looking at the battery charging meter and confirming it with my hand held meter, I found that the batteries weren’t charging like they used to. I think when I got it they were charging at 26 volts DC and now I’m getting 24.8 volts DC. So either something is up with the charging system or the batteries are fully charged (they are at 24.4 volts with the machine not running). I checked the charging alternator fuse and it was OK so if the 24.8 volts isn’t normal I guess I have to take the cooling shroud off (again) next weekend and see what’s up. It should be noted that I did have the shroud off this weekend and it’s possible that something got bumped and I do remember having some arcing at the batteries a couple of days ago when one of the cables wasn’t tight enough. It’s also worth noting that the guy I bought it from replaced the voltage rectifier prior to me buying it (they charged right when I bought it). Soooooo, is something amiss or is it all good?

 

[Speddmon]

It's probably that your batteries are fully charged. If you need to check the charging system, the TM has a really good and easy test procedure to check the system out. It's in TM 5-6115-585-34 page 7-8 and figure 7-8.

 

[Carl_in_NH]

I think Speddmon dropped a word; your batteries are NOT fully charged. You've been cranking and cranking and running those batteries down, and the charging system in the genset can only output 6 amps. This could take you a fairly long run time to restore complete charge and get the voltage back up where it belongs.

You can either let it run and see if the voltage comes up, or you could bring the batteries back to a full charge with an external charger and then see if the genset can maintain the charge after a starting cycle. Could also use a DC amp meter to check and see if the genset is trying to charge your batteries at roughly 6 amps - the fuse holder for the charging circuit is a goot place to check this - remove the fuse, and place the amp meter across its terminals.

 

[PeterD]

I'm with Carl on this, the voltage, with charged batteries, should be about 27 volts. At 24 volts, the batteries would never fully charge, so I'd suggest just tossing on a battery charger and letting 'em charge up then test the voltage again. You can charge each battery independently with a standard 12V battery charger if you don't have a 24 volt charger. It just takes twice as long, and care to hook it up correctly.

Generally to charge a lead-acid battery you want the charge voltage to be about 1.1 times the nominal battery voltage, so 26.4 volts when charging is acceptable. You can go as high as 28 volts though there is some minimal risk of overcharging when this happens.

 

[Polycop]

I've got the hour meter replaced, so that's good.

However the battery charging (lack of) issue is still problematic. Per the TM I pulled the stator leads and I didn't get ANY continuity between them (the TM said to contact a higher level of maintenance) but it was putting out 42 volts AC where the TM called for 30-39 AC. Hum?? I got no DC voltage across the fuse terminals, so I'm guessing that means the regulator / rectifier is bad? If that's the case is the 42 volts AC causing them to die? The guy I bought it from had just replaced it with a used one from his parts engine. Delks has them for $125 used, I remember someplace was selling them new for not much more than that (anyone remember where?). Or would I best be served by just getting a 24 volt charging system and plugging it into the convenience outlet and calling it good? I also wonder if maybe the regulator / rectifier isn't wired properly, however I can't find a diagram of what wire is supposed to go to which terminal, anyone got one?

Suggestions?

 

[DieselBob]

Erik's has them new.

Voltage Regulator/Rectifier (Battery Charging) For Onan MEP-002A / MEP-003A 5KW and 10KW Generator Sets, FVR4006

 

[jbk]

i think your stator is bad. i couldnt read cont. on my stator leads either and changed the stator now works fine. delks charged me 90.00 for a used one.

 

[Polycop]

If the stator was bad, it wouldn't put out any voltage, right?

 

[Polycop]

Updates:

Charging System:
Well, long story short I think it’s working right. Per some of the posters suggestions I charged the batteries with my charger up at the house. Once I hooked up the newly charged batteries to the generator, I checked the output at the fuse and found I was getting 26.6 volts DC. It’s worth noting that at first (last week) I was checking for voltage across the fuse terminals (which would work for A/C) and not getting voltage (causing my concern). After thinking about it and talking with my ‘smart guy’ friends, I realized that I need to check from fuse terminal to ground (duhhh). Once I got the generator running I disconnected the negative battery terminal and I was still getting 26.6 volts at the fuse and the battery charge meter pegged all the way to the right into the green. With the batteries all hooked up the needle would just hover right below the green, I’m thinking that if I ran it long enough it would go well into the green. Needless to say, I think I’ve wasted a couple of days messing around with it only to find that there probably wasn’t anything wrong with it to start with (fingers crossed).

Fuel Shut Off Linkage:
Not being able to leave well enough alone, the binding linkage right below the shutoff solenoid was bothering me (I would have to reach around and bump it with my hand while turning it over to get it to start). So I moved the bolt in the slot on the governor linkage out far enough to keep it from binding on shutdown / startup, but now I’m back to running at 60 hz with the speed control all the way in. I’m going to have to look at that a little closer.

 

[coyote62ny]

i got my new regulator from southern automotive wholesalers on ebay mine is running at 28 volts with new batteries and regulator