starting issues

[212sparky]

i have gone through the the manuals and isolated my problem down to the starter solenoid. in the input from the batteries i have 24 volts on the out pt to the starter motor its self i have 8 volts. i put test leads on the different points so i was not around the starter as i pushed the start button. is there any thing that can be done to the solenoid or do i replace the entire starter? If so where do i order a starter from? I just purchased the truck Saturday 9/11/2010 in Knoxville and the seller had started it an hour before i got there and i would not start when i got there. i drove it back to Cincinnati hoping that if something was stuck it would get bounced loose but no luck. PLEASE HELP!!!!!

 

[212sparky]

by the way it is a 1971 M35A2 if that helps

 

[Warthog]

Some of the starter solenoids can be be disassembled and the copper contacts inside cleaned.

You best bet is to remove the starter and take it to a big truck alternator/starter repair shop. They work on 24v stauff all the time.

You can find new starters for ~$500 and used takeouts for ~$300. Memphis Equipment, Saturn Surplus, White Owl OD Iron are a few of the MV vendors

Here is a wiring diagram for the Deuce.

 

[Barrman]

Start by cleaning all the leads for all the wires involved with the starter. Then, follow the troubleshooting guide in the -20 manual. It will tell you exactly what you should have where and what to do about it.

 

[212sparky]

thanks for the diagrams, I also noticed that on the starter relay on the other side of 74R there is nothing connected. the relay closes but should it be grounded?

 

[Warthog]

thanks for the diagrams, I also noticed that on the starter relay on the other side of 74R there is nothing connected. the relay closes but should it be grounded?

The diagram shows the connector "C" is grounded.

 

[212sparky]

It came with Gray NATO batteries in it, I have a good 25.865 volts on it. I cleaned all the cable ends with a wire brush bough new battery post connectors, the old ones were nasty. is it possible to have good voltage but not have the balls to crank the engine, and the charge gauge is in green but next to the yellow.

 

[Barrman]

What does the volt meter do when you hit the start button? If it is dropping down to zero, then batteries or a loose connection are your problem. I will try to look at my volt meter while I start mine tonight. I am pretty sure it doesn't even come close to dropping out of the yellow when cranking normally. Again, have to check that.

 

[Warthog]

...... is it possible to have good voltage but not have the balls to crank the engine, and the charge gauge is in green but next to the yellow.

The batteries can show good voltage but have a bad cell. You should have the batteries load tested at the local parts store or buy a load tester for yourself.

Harbor Freight has a 100amp tester for around ~$20. (500 amp is best - ~$50). It will give you a good indication of what your batteries are doing.

I have had many MVs that have had this problem with batteries. It sucks replacing batteries on 10-15 trucks.

 

[212sparky]

ok, i don't have the luxury of keeping my truck at my apartment but my storage place is close by. what i have found is the voltage at the batteries does not change when i hit the start button. the copper bus tie between the solenoid and the starter is0.7 ohms, the starter motor its self reads 0.7 ohms. the solenoid reads 56.8 ohms. all the readings are with the negative removed from the battery. is the solenoid easy to rebuild or can i replace it and not the entire starter/ solenoid?

 

[Warthog]

Here is some reading material.

TM 9-2920-243-34 dated 1975
TM 9-2920-248-35 dated 1968

Figure 4-15 of the -35 manual shows the solenoid breakdown and Section 4-25 talks about the solenoid.

Never taken one apart but it doesn't look too hard. On other starters in has been the round disk "D" in fig 4-15 that is pitted and needs to be cleaned.

First make sure your batteries are good before taking anything apart. Then troubleshoot the starting system.

 

[Barrman]

I was wrong. I got home and tried it 3 times. Power on, buzzer blaring the needle is right on the line between yellow and green. I hit the button and it drops below the red, then bounces back up while the engine is cranking to the line between red and yellow. As soon as it starts, the gauge jumps up to the hash in the green. 3 times tried, 3 times the same result.

The voltage meter is meant as a dual purpose gauge. Condition of the battery when the engine is off and state of the charging system when the engine is running. Just turning on the switch should tell you how much voltage you have. The yellow/green line is 24 volts. The yellow/red line is 20 if I remember correctly. Somewhere, one of my old -10 manuals shows the volt meter and what each position means in actual volts. If you are below the yellow before you even hit the start button, then you have a battery problem.

 

[212sparky]

i went out and got a tester, the 500 Amp type, here are the results: left battery: 12.6 with tester off, 11 with tester on and it dropped to 400 amps. the right battery started at 12.6 volts dropped to 11 volts and 420 amps. I have Hawker HASP-FT batteries in it right now.

 

[sandcobra164]

According to Hawker's literature, the batteries should be showing 13.0 Volts at full charge. I just went through some of this on my truck. It would pause for almost a second before the starter solenoid would engage. I purchased a battery charger specifically for AGM batteries as I've read the cautions about constant current chargers causing damage to them. Anyhow, once I charged the batteries (took about 5 hours on the front, overnight on the rear with a 12 amp charger), my woes were cured. I'd try that first (I try the easier stuff first), then I'd clean the ground strap and ohm it out, then I'd start ohming the power wires traveling to the starter. I'd then move onto the ground strap between the motor and frame.

Joseph

 

[212sparky]

my solenoid pulls in just fine. the input side i get 24=+ volts in the input from the battery, going to the starter i have 8 volts so there is a large amount of Resistance in side. are there serviceable contacts inside or is it a sealed unit that has to be replaced?

 

[bratpackdad]

Similar issue I replaced the ground strap and bought a Solargizer; problem solved.

 

[212sparky]

ok i got mine off eBay it came with a solar charger, what ground strap should i check? i cleaned all the terminations to deal with the starter. should i do any of the ones that deal with the engine?

 

[Wildchild467]

clean all connections. check the water in the batteries (if you can). also spray some kind of penetrating oil on all connections after you clean them. it will help keep a better connection in the future

 

[212sparky]

would any body recommend putting a jumper cable in to the starter motor feed bypassing the solenoid to make sure to motor works?

 

[212sparky]

new starter ordered