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Sunday winching gone wrong...
- Thread starter GamaGoatGirl
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DOCUSN1
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Thats why the call it SP
Wow you should have called lol I would had plenty of enough time to drive up and see that operation. Glad your all right and you have just broken metal. Nice pics now its time to pick up and repair and get ready for the snow lol. Have a good one Eric say hi to the wife. Mark
Wow you should have called lol I would had plenty of enough time to drive up and see that operation. Glad your all right and you have just broken metal. Nice pics now its time to pick up and repair and get ready for the snow lol. Have a good one Eric say hi to the wife. Mark
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Well, I found I was missing TM9-2320-260-34-2 TM. Looking there, there is a chapter on the trolley and rebuilding it. I still do not see an adjustment procedure or a technical description on setting the stops.
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rlwm211
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Oh, for a copy of TM 9-8617
That is the manual that covers this topic
RL
That is the manual that covers this topic
RL
rlwm211
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I just did some serious digging and there is a manual for a winch with a level winder available on LOGSA.
TM 9-3830-206-34P
This covers the winch used on the M44 series which is the 2.5 ton truck but it does cover the level winder assembly. This is strictly a parts manual.
I will keep digging
Hope this helps
RL
TM 9-3830-206-34P
This covers the winch used on the M44 series which is the 2.5 ton truck but it does cover the level winder assembly. This is strictly a parts manual.
I will keep digging
Hope this helps
RL
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tm america
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Eric i'm glad you got it out and more importantly that noone got hurt.I have had experience with a 40000lb excavator that was laying on it's side.. It resulted in a broken cable for me as well..Point is when working with the heavy stuff it's better to use to much and do it right or don't even hook up.. Two things i would advise when doing heavy pulls like that. First put the cable through an old tire or two .. let the tire sit in the middle of the cable that way if the cable snaps it will stop the cable from flying back at you.Second use a snatch block even if the math says you don't need it .. You don't want things getting uglier because something shifted .So its bettter to go super slow so you can get a better feel of whats going on with the pull...
spicergear
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They are NOT, repeat NOT...LONG ENOUGH. Trust me, I use my winches...if you want the level wind to work perfectly, don't assume the short factory stop is correct. I'm going up to the farm tonight and will get the picture of my longer stops. I also made them out of 1" aluminum round stock with a slightly rounded nose then bored and tapped the other end so they could be bolted in the factory stop's location. I also used the 1" round stock so the stop would have a larger base to it for stability when the trolley comes in contact with it. I had thought about a longer bolt...but didn't like how far it would need to extend to keep the trolley travel to where it should be. I suppose you could use a good grade 5 or 8 bolt and keep bottoming out nuts to give it's shank support too.
Again, factory stops are TOO short! I'm not saying it won't work in factory form, and you may get lucky and 4 of 5 times is okay, but one stiff roller and that trolley and that 5th time could be a bad, bad experience...
If the trolley over travels and the cable begins to stack against the side of the spool, there is nothing at that point, NOTHING that will make the trolley change dirction until the cable finally collapses the stack, snaps off with a jolt, or the trolley is physically pulled (yeah, by you) off that side toward the center so it starts spooling in the cable back across the winch.
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R Racing
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You got more guts than me on that 1 DH ! I wouldnt dare take my JD 710 down there affraid it would sink to china ! LOL Sometimes it pays not to have the bigger backhoe.
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Today, I looked at those trolly stops. Mine has them and they are out about 2". I Came to the same conclusion(before posting this thread) that Spicergear has). I want to see what he has done to correct that issue.
Squirt truck, are you saying you have no issues with your level winder and are completely happy with it's performance and function, as it is in stock form?
Also, I took a total PTO shaft length measurement today(to give to the shop). 80" total length installed, from one end to the other. There looks to be about an inch and a quarter available to collapse it)on the splines) to install it.
Squirt truck, are you saying you have no issues with your level winder and are completely happy with it's performance and function, as it is in stock form?
Also, I took a total PTO shaft length measurement today(to give to the shop). 80" total length installed, from one end to the other. There looks to be about an inch and a quarter available to collapse it)on the splines) to install it.
nk14zp
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Make sure that 1.5" is enough to install the shaft and allow you to change sheer pins.
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Looks like a fun day if you ask me. Got some experience AND no injuries.
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Don't try this at home folks he is a professional! At what I'm not shure !
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Well, Today I took the PTO shaft to the "local" Fleet Pride shop. They looked at it and said they'll get on it.
A few things we noticed were, the U joint ring was dinged pretty good from the flailing that occurred so they suggested we will need to replace the end that the shear pin goes through. That may require a new piece to be machined to match.
They did not like the fact that is was such a long shaft, and the tube wall thickness needs to be measured and matched or increased(if possible) while I was there they only measured where it broke, for the thickness and it was .120", standard tube they said was .85"(I think they said).
If the winch end is available, I may have them fab up a few new shafts, depending on price.
They said they can re tube it and not change the U joints(because of that ding), but I would rather go all new if possible. I want a safe and serviceable shaft when I'm done.
They said to give them a few days to look into it.
A few things we noticed were, the U joint ring was dinged pretty good from the flailing that occurred so they suggested we will need to replace the end that the shear pin goes through. That may require a new piece to be machined to match.
They did not like the fact that is was such a long shaft, and the tube wall thickness needs to be measured and matched or increased(if possible) while I was there they only measured where it broke, for the thickness and it was .120", standard tube they said was .85"(I think they said).
If the winch end is available, I may have them fab up a few new shafts, depending on price.
They said they can re tube it and not change the U joints(because of that ding), but I would rather go all new if possible. I want a safe and serviceable shaft when I'm done.
They said to give them a few days to look into it.
R Racing
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Definetly go with the heavier tube. I use to work for a company 15 years or so ago and 1 of my jobs was re tubing and making from scratch drive shafts. There are defiently some tricks to doing them correctly.
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I would go withHEAVIER u-joints and shaft, so when things give, the shear pin gives, that shaft is to close to the pan to take a chance on busting a hole, this would be a BAD day
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Well, I just found a source for the end that was damaged. I'll call the shop tomorrow and see what they found and ask if they want me to supply them with that end.
As for the wall thickness, I think they implied that they only had one thickness available in that diameter. So a clean cut and measure is needed to identify the stock tube thickness. I just didn't want it to be thinner(assuming thinner is less strong).
As for the wall thickness, I think they implied that they only had one thickness available in that diameter. So a clean cut and measure is needed to identify the stock tube thickness. I just didn't want it to be thinner(assuming thinner is less strong).
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I have determined why the trolley/level-winder did not work properly and the cable built up on the end of the drum and snapped.
I had a thought today as I was driving to the drive shaft shop. What if, when I had the drum spooled out completely to get rigged up, I mistakenly had run the winch in reverse to wind up and do the pull. That would cause the cable to drag on the back bottom edge of the trolley frame and under great tension, surely cause an issue. So, I just went out to look for evidence of this. Here's a pic. It is now obvious to me, I ran the winch back wards, causing my cable to drag, and the trolley to not be able to function, causing the cable to break.
Looks like human error(mine) was the cause of the cable braking. Now I need to determine why I accidentally ran it in reverse.(perhaps I need better labeling in the cab)
The drive shaft broke afterward, on a different pull without the tensioner and level winder in use.
I had a thought today as I was driving to the drive shaft shop. What if, when I had the drum spooled out completely to get rigged up, I mistakenly had run the winch in reverse to wind up and do the pull. That would cause the cable to drag on the back bottom edge of the trolley frame and under great tension, surely cause an issue. So, I just went out to look for evidence of this. Here's a pic. It is now obvious to me, I ran the winch back wards, causing my cable to drag, and the trolley to not be able to function, causing the cable to break.
Looks like human error(mine) was the cause of the cable braking. Now I need to determine why I accidentally ran it in reverse.(perhaps I need better labeling in the cab)
The drive shaft broke afterward, on a different pull without the tensioner and level winder in use.
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While I was pulling the cable in, the drum was rotating counter clockwise(as you look at the pic above).
After the cable broke, it did not matter since I had the trolley not in use.
So, I was clearly running the winch back wards! I need to go look at the TM and my in cab labeling next.
After the cable broke, it did not matter since I had the trolley not in use.
So, I was clearly running the winch back wards! I need to go look at the TM and my in cab labeling next.
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Hasbeen
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doghead,
Most likely the reason they were concerned about the length was due to it`s relationship with maximum r.pm. Most driveline guys are taught a term called "half critical speed" that governs the max length vs. max r.pm.
The 120 wall tube and the fact that most winch applications are relatively "low speed" is the reason Uncle Sam was able to successfully design and build that set up.
I grew up in a driveline shop years ago, and believed then, and still do, that a driveline is a fuse. (regardless of shear bolts, slip clutches etc) to my point...What`s this job going to cost?....simple re-tube and balance nowadays is probably less than $150.00 (on 2 inch or 2.5 inch tubing) You can`t come close to replacing ring gears, bull gears, or pto drive gears etc for that price.
Shock load is bad news....But I believe building it back just as designed will serve your purpose.
Good Luck
Hasbeen
Most likely the reason they were concerned about the length was due to it`s relationship with maximum r.pm. Most driveline guys are taught a term called "half critical speed" that governs the max length vs. max r.pm.
The 120 wall tube and the fact that most winch applications are relatively "low speed" is the reason Uncle Sam was able to successfully design and build that set up.
I grew up in a driveline shop years ago, and believed then, and still do, that a driveline is a fuse. (regardless of shear bolts, slip clutches etc) to my point...What`s this job going to cost?....simple re-tube and balance nowadays is probably less than $150.00 (on 2 inch or 2.5 inch tubing) You can`t come close to replacing ring gears, bull gears, or pto drive gears etc for that price.
Shock load is bad news....But I believe building it back just as designed will serve your purpose.
Good Luck
Hasbeen