Doghead Starter Relay Mod Question

[cpf240]

Yes, here we go again... well, maybe not...

Hello, I'm fairly new here, and have an interest in getting an M1009 one day, hopefully soon. ( I've also recently discovered that my wife is interested in a deuce, boy am I in for it! ) To prepare for that day, I have been doing a lot of reading in the forums here, as well as taking a look at the TMs.

I know that there are several things to do upon acquiring the truck:

Doghead Starter Relay Mod
GP Relay Upgrade
GP Resistor bypass / 12v GP supply conversion
Check / replace fluids / grease / fuel filters
Etc, etc, etc, wash, rinse, repeat

In regards to the starter relay mod, I wanted to know if anyone has ever made a harness pigtail for the relay so that the existing harness connector could be maintained. Yeah, I know, just cut the connector off and crimp on some terminal lugs. I just have this aversion to cutting off the connector if there is a suitable way to use it.

The connector on the harness is probably female, so is there a corresponding male connector that I can buy? Has anyone taken apart the original starter relay, and if so, does it look like it would be possible to make it into a connector for the new relay?

A local SS member, Hi Gottlos!, suggested that I get out there on the forum and ask questions. As many have said here, it appears that all possible questions have already been asked and answered by the wonderful people here at SS. So, did I succeed, or do I need to work on my forum search-foo?

 

[Sasquatch]

Welcone to the forum.

Did the Doghead mod when I got my M1008, I just cut off the old one as close to the relay as possible.

Whats your aversion to cutting the wires? It's a weak relay there and you are never going to put a crappy relay back in there, so you are always going to want the lugs.

When a mod as popular as the Doghead Relay has been on the site this long, rest assured enough people have done to figure out if there are any drawbacks and nobody I know of has reinstalled the old relay so no need for the connector. Get out the wire cutters and get used to it, lots of wires to be cut and recrimped with new terminals.

 

[cpf240]

No, no plans to put the original relay back, don't worry about that!

I think it is more of not wanting to damage a harness that I don't have to. It comes from working on my old Datsun Z. Some parts you just can't get anymore, or if you can, they are pretty spendy. So, if I don't have to cut the connector off by making an adapter pigtail, I'll explore that first.

Just one of my quirks, as some would say.

 

[Warthog]

Just go buy one of the old style relays and open it up. It will only cost you a few bucks. Someone may send you a used one.

It would be easier to just make a jumper connector with some male spade connectors, ring terminals, wire and shrink wrap tubing

 

[deercoker]

Has anyone seen a M1009 taht the relay was removed and rewired without putting in another relay, I just bought one that came from a police dept. and there is no relay just the connector.

 

[Warthog]

Sometime the trucks are rewired for 12v. If that is the case no need for the relay, just jumper the purple wires together.

 

[deercoker]

Have not had that much experience with the 24volt system, my other cucv was "original" as they can get straight outta the army, but if this one is 12volt why would both batteries still be hooked up together and still have the huge 24volt starter, the police had done some rewiring for the light bar and radio but other than that everything else looke fine, my problem started today after 2 months running fine that when I started it the starter remaind engaged, I shut her off and the starter was still runnin, only after I disconnected BOTH batteries did it stop, that is when I suspected the relay however there isn't one, any ideas?

 

[Warthog]

I have seen so many trucks that have had the wiring hacked. Without further info and pictures of the wiring it is hard to tell what they did to the wiring.

 

[deercoker]

10-4 I heard that, looks like the small wire from the starter solenoid is spliced into the purple wire at the glow plug card, I can post some pictures tommorrow after I get back from the VA

 

[cpf240]

add info

Sometimes the solenoid on the starter sticks in the engaged position, which will cause the starter to stay running. This could be caused by improper alignment of the stater and the flex plate or by the contacts in the solenoid on the starter arcing and welding themselves together, usually due to low cranking voltage.

Also, the wires to the starter may be shorting at the terminals.

 

[deercoker]

looks like it has been converted to 12 volt with a 12 volt starter, still don't understand the small solenoid wire spliced into the purple wire at the glow plug card.

 

[Warthog]

Looking at wiring diagram E-7 from the TM 9-2320-289-34 tech manual, the purple/white wire is controlled by the ignition switch and "energizes" the GP controller card while the key is in the start position.

What do you want to do with the truck? return it to stock or fix it as is? We need to know so we can know how to help you.

 

[deercoker]

I just want to keep it runnin, the batteries are not hooked up in series the way my other cucv was, I am only getting 12 volts anywhere I check, the starter only has 12 volts to it, the dadgone thing started and ran 5 times today with no problems, maybe a faulty solenoid on the 12volt starter?

 

[deercoker]

Warthog, should there be any juice on the purple/white wire if key is not in start position, I would think there should'nt be any be want to be sure,

 

[firefox]

Just a note to this old thread. When I did the doghead relay upgrade, I just used an old relay as a connector to plug the new relay in. ie; I gutted the old relay and soldered wires to the pins, then put a hole and a gromet in the shell for the wires going to the new relay. I mounted the new relay on the other end of the mounting plate that the old relay was mounted on. I just used a glow plug type relay that was recomended to replace the original glow plug relay.

 

[Warthog]

Warthog, should there be any juice on the purple/white wire if key is not in start position, I would think there should'nt be any be want to be sure,

Only 12v when the key is in the start position.

 

[DeepSea1985]

I know this is an old thread but it addresses a question I have. Is the voltage on wires at the starter relay and solenoid suppose 12 or 24 volts. I bought a non running CUCV and I've made a number of mechanical engine repairs it allegedly needed, primary ones being rebuilt injection pump and broken starter bolts left dissembled by previous owner. I'm at the point of making the doghead relay mod but when I pulled old relay plate down, relay is gone and I found the large purple wires have melted together. So I pulled off part of the instrument panel to see how far up harness is toasted and find that previous owner already buy-passed problem and installed a push button, (unlabeled, thanks for that), with a light 14 gauge wire, one side to rear battery + terminal so 24 V and other side to starter coil/solenoid. I'm sure this is wrong setup.....I've tried to follow the wiring diagrams posted, just not sure about the voltage and proper wire size I'm going to need to correct this one with.

 

[cucvrus]

I would start by replacing the wiring harness under the dash and then go from there. That is me I have a access to extra parts. But for the most part I just remove modified wiring and replace or repair the section that is bad. It some instances it requires a donor harness to correct some of the errors of previous owners hack jobs. Have a nice day. The starter relay is 24 volts. I think. Never checked it because mine always worked as designed.
12 Volts I stand corrected. Thank you. I never had any reason to check the voltage.

 

[cpf240]

The stater relay under the dash is controlled by 12v from the ignition switch, and it sends 24v to the starter solenoid.

 

[DeepSea1985]

So just to see if this things going to run at all, I'm going to temporally install the same style relay as doghead suggests, probably mounted on fender well for ease of access. I'll run 12 volts from the push button to small terminals and run 24V through big ones. If it runs and drives OK, I'll tackle replacing the burned harness.

Thanks for the help.