Detroit 4-53 in a deuce?

[Monster Man]

what do you think? My dad's looking to get rid of his old truck that hasn't ran in years, a '78 Ford super duty with a Detroit 4-53, I believe it's supercharged, has a Jake Brake also. Needs something or other that he never got around to buying, but it still runs (or ran anyway). Loud, smoky, but very torquey. I remember reading these things had like 500 lb-ft of torque. Would this make a good choice for a deuce engine, over the old multifuel? Anybody looking for one or knows anybody looking for one? It's a good popular engine as far as swaps into pickups go, so I hate to see it scrapped.

 

[Trango]

The things you need to look at are

Top RPM (remember, the LDT just runs out of RPM), but rare to see a 3000 RPM diesel
Top HP (LDT crests at 135, so that's an issue going up hills and with top speed against a headwind)
and torque isn't that much of an issue.

You know how your deuce screams through gears until about 30? That's because it has stump pulling torque - I mean, not MAJOR, but at 430-something FT LBS, 500 ft lbs isn't that much of an improvement. The real issue with the deuce is HP - total amount of work it can do.

 

[Monster Man]

thanks- how much does the LDT465 weigh again? Reading around I found that the Detroit is 1175 pounds and one guy got 165 HP and 495 lb-ft. Not a huge bump, but still more. Only drawback is the noise and smoke. I can't see subjecting my neighbors or any traffic behind me to that, unless i was getting double the horsepower and about 600 lb-ft, then I'd have no problems!!!

 

[Trango]

It weighs more than that, I bet! I never got an accurate weight but the LDT was at LEAST 1200 lbs if it was an ounce.

What's the blower on that thing? How bombable is it? That would be the way to go. Heck, if you get 100,000 miles out of any engine you put into the deuce, I think you'll still have plenty of miles left in it when you're done, you know?

Bob

 

[Monster Man]

I'll have to look more into the "Green Grenade" as they call it. Man, that thing is a trip, ever heard one with a turbo AND Jake Brake? It's a trip!

 

[bomar76]

ALL of the old 2 stroke Detroits are supercharged.....but not really in the way most people now think. Thwy used the supercharger for exhaust scavenging.

I put a million miles + on 2 stroke Detroits and love those old engines.

Did you know they will run backwards? let the truck roll backwards, pop the clutch - and the show begins :freaked:

Had a couple run away on me. They were kinda prone to that.

VERY interesting engine...the V 6 and 8 seriers were modular....you could bolt 2 6's together to get a V12, 2 8's to get a 16, etc. and all sorts of other stuff...like mechanicaly actuated injectors.

Oil leaking MoFo's :smilewinkgrin:

There are still a sh!tload of them in service in the marine market.

 

[rdixiemiller]

We ran a lot of 8V53's on the boats. Good motors, but they would spin the cam bearings out of the block if there was ever an oil pressure drop. Screaming engines, externally lubricated. They were prone to having the blower seals let go and start running on engine oil. Then you couldn't shut them down. I threw a beach towel into the air intake on one and ran to the bow of the boat!! Wrung off the blower shaft, shut the engine down, no real damage. Scared the bejazus out of me!
We also had a lot of 4-71's and 6-71's. The 4-71 would be a good deuce engine, methinks. I remember some old GMC dumptrucks ran them.

 

[DUUANE]

i love a detroit under my boot.if you're going to the trouble to do a swap,consider bartering your 4-53n?is it turbocharged or no?for a 4-53 "silver".they came in ottowa yard or "shunt" tractors.among other things.

the silver series engines had 4 valve heads and BYPASS BLOWERS.this is critical to making good power with a 2 stroke.if you can eliminate the parasitic horsepower loss of the blower it wouldnt be a problem to make 100hp per hole on a 53 series engine.the other thing with detroits to remember is NEVER to lug them.keep the revs up near rated speed.it's where they're designed to run.if you want sustained peak torque,buy a cummins 855.if you want sustained peak hp go with the detroit.and an 18spd eaton fuller trans.hehe. :devil: i've got three gama goat 3-53's that are going to get "the treatment" and find their way into various projects around here this season.i'll post the details once we're good to go.

and never put the wrong weight,or multi viscosity oil in a detroit.it'll be an expensive mistake...

then get ready for FUN FUN FUN

 

[yeager1]

If any of the Detroit fans are interested, there is a 6-71 turbo sitting on ebay for 40 bucks, looks like it in good shape. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=7962693573&rd=1

I've always thought the 3s and 4s were a little underpowered stock, but I've heard you can do alot with them. The 6s (if turboed) would probably move right along if you turned it up, but I don't know how much hp you could get out of one.

 

[hot rod deuce]

where did you come up with a 4-53 being 500 ft lbs?!? i think maybe some one read 4-71. its only 200 inches even if it is 2 stroke im almost sure a 318 HP 8-V71 is just under 800 but thats way more cubes some where i read the LDT is 1600 lbs i think its in the boyce parts book ill look...it has alkinds of stuff. The 135 hp ldt is only 300 ft lbs you know....

 

[DUUANE]

with a detroit you have twice as many power strokes per revolution as compared to a 4 stroke.so the relationship between power and cubic inches is different.this allows for the same brake hp from a lighter more compact engine(less cubes).the weak link is the blower in my opinion.i've been toying with the idea of removing the blower and using a high speed electric motor to spin the compressor side of a turbo to normalize the air box for starting.once it's thumping it can run on the main turbo.gotta get that roots blower p.o.s. outa the equation.use an egt pyrometer to trigger n.o.s. fogger to keep things kool.just in case i cant take my foot outa it in time. :freaked:

 

[Monster Man]

where did you come up with a 4-53 being 500 ft lbs?!? i think maybe some one read 4-71. its only 200 inches even if it is 2 stroke im almost sure a 318 HP 8-V71 is just under 800 but thats way more cubes some where i read the LDT is 1600 lbs i think its in the boyce parts book ill look...it has alkinds of stuff. The 135 hp ldt is only 300 ft lbs you know....

"The 4-53 weighs 1175 pounds. Mine dynoed 160 hp and 495 ft/lb torque with C65 injectors. (Heavy black smoke excessive opacity note- Don't do that. C60 is as big as you should go.) Before you sneer, remember, this is 212 cubic inches. Always needed to be turbocharged."

http://www.dieseldoctor.com/messageboard/data/401.html



then again, you know how every dyno is different- I couldn't find any others offhand, but I believe my dad has all the detroit books that came with it. It's one of those supercharged ones you mentioned, he couldn't really describe it but it's got somee help []

 

[Trango]

"The 135 hp ldt is only 300 ft lbs you know...."

Wow..... I thought the LDT was more in the 400 range for Ft-lbs. That makes me feel even better about putting the 3208 in.

Last night I just realized that the brass syncro ring on the 4th+5th gears in the 6855 is wrong, wrong wrong. I had this whole tranny buttoned up, just needed to fabricate new shift rails to be able to use a different location shift tower, and it turns out that the last person who rebuilt this tranny put the wrong syncro in. Bummer. I just realized last night that the brass doesn't even engage the gear at all. Thing must have grinded like a sonofa shifting into OD (if it did at all!!!!!).

Bob

 

[hmburner]

I have a 1956 M135 i'm installing a 353 into. It came out of a bread truck with a four speed attached. This will be my daily summer driver,so horsepower is not that important. Looking forward to the duece running a little Detroit two stroker on a unmuffled stack

 

[JDToumanian]

NAPCO sells conversion kits to put a 4-53 into a deuce. I have their catalog, it says that the kit was designed to replace a gas engine but can be supplied to replace a multifuel. They claim performance is better than a gasser and as good as a multifuel.

http://napcointl.com/en/home/product_divisions/repower_retrofit.html

Check out the little animated .gif in the upper right... before / after

Regards,
Jon

 

[5tonpuller]

used to drive a dump truck with a 6-71ta in it. the harder you rane it the more it was in love. People know when I was on my way. LOL
2150-2500 is about it. you will have to find a trans out of a cum. powered truck to get hi way speeds

 

[5tonpuller]

used to drive a dump truck with a 6-71ta in it. the harder you ran it the more it was in love. People know when I was on my way. LOL
2150-2500 is about it. you will have to find a trans out of a cum. powered truck to get hi way speeds

 

[area52]

price

NAPCO sells conversion kits to put a 4-53 into a deuce. I have their catalog, it says that the kit was designed to replace a gas engine but can be supplied to replace a multifuel. They claim performance is better than a gasser and as good as a multifuel.

http://napcointl.com/en/home/product_divisions/repower_retrofit.html

Check out the little animated .gif in the upper right... before / after

Regards,
Jon

Jon,

Did you ever contact them to get a price on one of their kits? Betcha its pretty $$$$$!

 

[Trango]

RE: price

Hey BTW, I have a 5 ton mil tranny with .69 OD that I am going to be looking to sell here in the next year or so (whenever I find a good airshift to replace it). Do the math - with 46" tires and that OD, you'll be ok for RPM's no matter how fast you want to go.

If you're interested in the tranny, let me know. It currently rests behind the Cat 3208 in my truck. It has a custom output flange I made for it to allow bolt-up to the stock driveshaft, and in every respect, it is ready for service on a deuce. The thing is that it's maybe 8-10" longer than a stock deuce tranny, and thus will only fit if you're repowering.

 

[yeager1]

RE: price

The LDT is only 135 hp, but it can be turned up quite a bit (If someones got a good estimate I'd definately like to see it). The LDS is basicly the same motor (different trubo and oil cooled pistons, + minor others) and makes between 195-210 stock (torque #'s anyone ???) so I think an LDT would be similar in hp turned up. I'm not against motor swaps, but installing a turned up 4-53 vs just turning up the deuce would probably not gain you much.