404 re-power

[Mogman]

I have a 404 that I re-powered in the early 90s with an OM617 5 cylinder turbo diesel.
That engine needs work so I am wondering if there are any other viable options now?

 

[thompsoncustom]

What about a 4BT cummins?

 

[Mogman]

What about a 4BT cummins?

Thanks, I was thinking of another MB diesel that would bolt up to the bell housing, seems doubtful I would find a Cummins/MB adapter and there is no choice but to use the original bell housing. (or in my case a copy of the Unimog 411 bell housing that had the OM636 4 cylinder diesel engine)
Now there is the OM603, 605, 606, 612, 647, 613, 648 and 656, might be more
The 656 produces up to 350HP which would be more than the original 80HP drive train could handle for sure.
I have no idea if any of the later engines have compatible bell housing bolt patterns.
A little trivia that little OM636 was produced from 1948 through 1990 quite a long run for any engine series.

 

[Mogman]

There may even be some viable gas engines

 

[Mogman]

Actually I see two salvage vehicle at auction in TX with the OM617 at this time, I may just get one and see if it is worth using.
Although I would REALLY like to get away from IDI, they are certainly the dogs of the diesel world.

 

[canadacountry]

might be a bit too "apple and orange" but what of older vw diesels? I mean they had 5-inline motors used for the transporter's too

 

[Mogman]

might be a bit too "apple and orange" but what of older vw diesels? I mean they had 5-inline motors used for the transporter's too

I was reading about some guy trying to mate a VW to the 404, he was trying to hand make an adapter as there are none available.
This would be difficult given the design of the 404 bell housing.
I think with the lack of an adapter a MB engine would be the most likely candidate, like GM and others they did use the same bell housing pattern for many early engines, just not sure when if ever they changed

 

[UNIMOG-GUY]

There’s several guys on BenzWorld Unimog site who successfully mated a VW diesel engine to a Unimog transmission and a third one was done somewhere in Canada. I think there‘s a link on the BenzWorld forum as well. If you can’t find it PM me and I’ll try to post the links here.

 

[Mogman]

There’s several guys on BenzWorld Unimog site who successfully mated a VW diesel engine to a Unimog transmission and a third one was done somewhere in Canada. I think there‘s a link on the BenzWorld forum as well. If you can’t find it PM me and I’ll try to post the links here.

What would the advantage be?

 

[UNIMOG-GUY]

@Mogman Several things I can think of off the top of my head….

-Relative ease of sourcing an engine
-Cost vs rebuilding what you have
-Power to weight ratio
-Availability of parts
-Tune ability of the engine
-Aftermarket support of the engine

But ask those questions on BW. That’s where the majority of the Unimog experts in the US I’ve found hang out. I think you are a member there? I‘ve been out of the Mog scene for a couple years after I sold both of my 404’s and parts stash.

A quick search on BW using the terms 404 TDI* or 404 VW* nets hours worth of reading.

 

[canadacountry]

@UNIMOG-GUY yeah I might have to say that for small diesels vw and toyota are probably the first choices (mind you I didn't mention toyota before because I don't know how well it would shoe in physically beside that I rarely seem to have ever heard of toyota engines in non-toyota vehicles as far as I know of. there is either a turbo 2.4l 4-inline or non-turbo 3.5l 5-inline plausible choices otherwise as a footnote)

on an unrelated note I still see the infrequent canada ad once in a while that would be like along the wording of 'vw rabbit for sale, 540K on chassis and 270K on engine overhaul. selling due to changing family needs' which tells you how stubborn these little engines could be as I rarely ever see any gas rabbits being offered "this old" on the contrast

 

[thompsoncustom]

I have two vw tdi's with the 1.9 alh turbo diesel 4 cylinder stock specs are 90hp and 155tq(tho easy to turn up). They are a good little cars both have over 400k on them I lost a timing belt about a month or two back on one of them and they are an interference engine so it bent the valves. I don't remember what it cost me to rebuild it around $300 bucks I think using good parts like a gates belt, Mahle cam followers, OEM head bolts.

Biggest advantage to these would be easy parts to get and cost.

 

[Mogman]

I have two vw tdi's with the 1.9 alh turbo diesel 4 cylinder stock specs are 90hp and 155tq(tho easy to turn up). They are a good little cars both have over 400k on them I lost a timing belt about a month or two back on one of them and they are an interference engine so it bent the valves. I don't remember what it cost me to rebuild it around $300 bucks I think using good parts like a gates belt, Mahle cam followers, OEM head bolts.

Biggest advantage to these would be easy parts to get and cost.

All the VW engines that looked like candidates are significantly low on power.

 

[Mogman]

It may be advantageous to source another OM617
With a pump mod and a good Holset turbo I should see around 170HP which would be enough.
The OM617 will do 230HP with a 7.5mm IP, 7CM Holset turbo and an intercooler but an otherwise stock engine.
One would need to be careful though with a drive train designed for 80HP even if is is German.