A3 Bed recovery QUESTIONS???

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

BACKGROUND INFO:
I'm anticipating a recovery in the very near future of an ex-Volunteer Fire Department M35 Cab and Chassis, along with an extra still-in-the-crate rebuilt multi-fuel engine. The VFD has replaced their 1968 AM General with an M35A3.

In the process, they pulled the A3 Bed (dropside? with troop seats & bows) so they could reuse the Brush-Fire unit from the older truck. They then GAVE the A3 Bed to a local "pack rat" who dropped the bed into one of his goat pens.

I have only seen the bed from about 250 ft away, but it looks great. I'm figuring that an appropriate CASH offer will "recover" the bed from the goat pen to go onto the Cab&Chassis Deuce that I'll be picking up.

There will be a forkfilt available near the Firehouse for lifting the engine and "misc. parts" crates onto the truck. I hope to set the bed onto the deuce first though.

QUESTIONS:
1. Other threads state the A2 bed weight at about 2000# - Does anyone have an accurate weight for an A3 Dropside bed with Troop Seats and Bows?

2. The ground conditions in the goat pen probably won't support the forklift, so I'm going to have to GRUNT-Labor-Lift the bed to the 40-42" Deuce frame height. Any suggestions on how best to do this would be helpful.
***My initial thoughts would be to lift the front end of the bed (hydraulic jack or long timber/pipe leverage) and blocking it up enough to get the deuce under that end. Then lifting the back end while either backing under the bed or using pipe as rollers, rolling the bed onto the truck frame. For the trip home, I'd strap the bed down if unable to align the bolt holes to bolt it down.*** Any thoughts?

3. Any other input on such a recovery????

Thanks in advance.

 

[4x4 Forever]

As a thought,

Blocking a cribbing is good. I ahve found that landscape timbers cut into 2' lengths are the best and also the cheapest.

You might be better off finding someone with a lowboy trailer and place the bed on 4x4's, strap it down. You can play with it at the house under better conditions to place it on the deuce.

Just my .

Good Luck!

 

[Nonotagain]

I'd probably use an engine cherry picker and some cribbibg with a 4x4 spanning the bed width, then back the nekkid truck under the bed.

Other than that, if the ground is too soft to support the cherry picker, just drag it to soild ground, then repeat step 1.

 

[NDT]

Drag the bed with a tractor under a tree or some other sturdy overhead brace, then use a comealong to winch the bed up and drive the truck under it. 2000 lbs is correct.

 

[clinto]

1. I do not have an accurate weight for the A3 bed but I think the 2K figure is high for a standard bed. Jones posted a picture of his A2 bed hanging on a scale at something like 1460.

2. If there is ANY way to get that forklift in there, do it. That's 10 million times easier than what you are proposing. Is there a way to get some PSP for the lift to drive on? Huge sheets of thick wood, with 2x4's or something?

I would spend my time trying to engineer a way in there for the forklift as opposed to trying to engineer a way to lift the bed manually*

*This advice all from a person who has not seen the AO you'll be in.

 

[papabear]

Hmmm...gotta friend with a rollback wrecker? The operator could just pull the deuce bed up on the deck and then place it on the deuce for you if he is a good operator.

OR...just hire someone with a boom wrecker to lift the bed and set it on the deuce.

I always consider my time worth something and the safety aspect as well.

I know money is an issue for us all but sometimes it's just better to pay up and:

 

[Bob H]

So how did the guy get it from the VFD to the Goat pen?

 

[4x4 Forever]

1. I do not have an accurate weight for the A3 bed but I think the 2K figure is high for a standard bed. Jones posted a picture of his A2 bed hanging on a scale at something like 1460.

2. If there is ANY way to get that forklift in there, do it. That's 10 million times easier than what you are proposing. Is there a way to get some PSP for the lift to drive on? Huge sheets of thick wood, with 2x4's or something?

I would spend my time trying to engineer a way in there for the forklift as opposed to trying to engineer a way to lift the bed manually*

*This advice all from a person who has not seen the AO you'll be in.

1. I agree with #2, if you have the money and the means to get to the item.

2. Lifting 1500 to 2000#, 30+/-", to get on a lowboy is considerably easier than going to 42" (or more) and backing the frame under it in a muddy field. Placing it on a lowboy and taking it home to a more stable working area makes sense and is considerably safer. You would also be able to look and see what you have and see if you need to do any work or cleaning on the underside.

3. This advise comes from a person that did not have the money to hire a crane to lift a 48' steel hull weighing 9000# to a heighth of 36" to back a trailer under it. Thats the AO I've been in.

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

Thank you, gentlemen - Your thoughts are definitely appreciated.

The RollBack is actually my preferred plan, but we're looking at backing it into the narrow goat pen (downhill) then hopefully getting back out. The bed was dropped directly off the A3, so it had no problem climbing back out to the paved road. Hence, my thought of muscling the bed onto the deuce for an equally sure trek back out of the soft dirt.

I'm also considering a 16' two-axle utility trailer behind a F-350 4x4. But that would still mean lifting one end at least 28"and then shoving the trailer under.

Dragging the bed to a tree is out ot the question - this is west Texas... What's a tree? Actually, the trees we have are marginally able to hold up a tire swing!

Any underside cleaning has already been anticipated on this end of the recovery - that's why the bed may just be strapped to the chassis for the short trip.

The forkflit option is still full of questions - I've not seen the forklift - I may be any size, warehouse or off-road - I just don't know at this point.

I also have the option of laying a track of oilfield pipe and using that steel as runners upon which to drag the bed up to the pave road where the whole picture becomes more favorable.

I just have to get out there and do a better ReCon on the battlefield.

I'll keep y'all posted.

In the meantime - keep the think tank pumping those good ideas to me. THANKS

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

One more thought....

The VFD's new A3 has a winch - may be able to winch it onto a low trailer easier than any of the other options. Then just recouple the trailer to the F350 and boogie down the highway!

 

[clinto]

The VFD's new A3 has a winch

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/2780-frame-kit-hoist-m35-lets-talk-about.html

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/30688-gin-poles-finished.html

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/346609-post52.html

 

[jdr2710]

I had the fun of recovering a 2000-ish pound RV from where I busted the axle up on a mountain during hunting season, miles & miles from anywhere. We we able to cobble together a log as a skid to get it off the road and into a meadow, so at least I wasn't blocking the road overnight.

What we ended up doing was some 8x8 cribbing from timbers a buddy had laying around and 2 12' long 4x6's to span the width. We used hi-lift type jacks to inch our way up one crib thickness at a time at each end. We did the rear end directly on the 6' long 8x8 cribbing, then the front we spanned the frame with the 12' 4x6 to back the flatbed trailer under it. Once it was high enough we backed the trailer under as far as the cribbing in the rear would allow, then used a come-a-long to pull it the rest of the way onto the trailer. It took a few hours to get it in the air and there were a few moments of profound pucker factor, but we did get it onto the trailer and hauled out of the trail it broke on. I have since replaced the 2,500 pound torsion axle with a 6,000 pound leaf spring so hopefully I don't get to enjoy that experience again!

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

UPDATE:
I've got good news on several aspects of this saga.....

1. As many of you know, I work for a Cemetery and Funeral Home. Our granite monument supplier just happens to have a 4-wheel-drive truck with a 3000# mini crane on the back! Since I frequently refer business to him without direct compensation, he's willing to help with the recovery from the goat pen! Cool!

2. It turns out that the electrician who adopted the A3 bed from teh Fire Department actually is employed by the rural Electric Co-Op and has a "take home" bucket truck capable of hoisting transformers, etc - at least 2500# capacity.

3. The Fire Department's A2 should be ready for my recovery on Monday (3/22) so this could all happen in pretty short order.

Seems that I was trying to "engineer" the recovery through grunt labor, when appropriate equipment seems at this point to be readily available.

Thanks for all the constructive suggestions.

I'm going to look in to rigging a gin pole setup as previously described. Anyone know of a NOX Kit out there???

 

[4x4 Forever]

Excellent USAFSS-ColdWarrior! Glad that someone could give a helping hand in your recovery, without having to manually lift it. Hope all goes good for ya!

Not a clue on a NOS kit for the gin pole setup, prolly would not be too hard to fab one though.

 

[79driver]

Im kinda curious what vfd out your way got the a3? Takes some pics if you can.

 

[5ton4ever]

I have used a high lift farm jack to lift up one corner at a time, and used pallets as cribbing, it took a while to keep going around and around lifting each corner and raising it 5 inches at a time. but it worked. good luck.

 

[SEAFIRE]

Im kinda curious what vfd out your way got the a3? Takes some pics if you can.

I got this picture somehow, was taken at a grass fire in NW Texas, looks like an A3, but no name on the door... I wondered if it had broke down due to it being on the side of the road with the engine side cover down.

 

[skidunits4you]

WOW 1200 gallons on a A3 thats a load I have 1200 gallons on my 5 ton only 600 on A2 state A3 has 850 on it and thats plenty of load I know its not what the post started as but looking at pic it just looks overloaded

 

[79driver]

WOW 1200 gallons on a A3 thats a load I have 1200 gallons on my 5 ton only 600 on A2 state A3 has 850 on it and thats plenty of load I know its not what the post started as but looking at pic it just looks overloaded

Same here we had 600 gallons on our old a2, we put that skid on the a3 now that we just got. Our 5 ton is 1500 gallons tanker.

 

[SEAFIRE]

WOW 1200 gallons on a A3 thats a load I have 1200 gallons on my 5 ton only 600 on A2

Our 1968 M35A2 WO/W has a 1236-gallon poly tank, but our 1968 M35A2 W/W has a 500-gallon tank. The 1236-gallon tank was ordered before I was Chief. They measured the steel tank that was on our since retired 1967 M35, not knowing how many gallons it really was.

The "heavy" deuce has served us well, but If I were to do it over again, it would have a smaller tank. Our guys like being able to go out in the fields and not have to come back for water as often as the other trucks. One of our sister departments used to have a M35A2 with a 2000-gallon tank, it's since retired, the tranny from that truck is now in our M35 W/W.

USAFSS-ColdWarrior, didn't mean to hijack your thread, maybe we need another firefighter deuce thread.