Algae oil grown in continous photobioreactor.

[andytk5]

Is anyone growing there own biodiesel in a PBR system? I searched and I couldn't find a thread about it.

I have looked into this alot and there are flexible PBR systems that look like clear pool rafts $600 and up), or some rigid tube strutures that the algae/water travel through using pumps absorbing sunlight and can be continously harvested for pressing and then further oil extration with chemicals.

I can't find difinitive info on how the extracted oil is made into biodiesel but from the reading it seems you just go right into the same process like veggie oil with the water removal, lye, meth..

Love to throw info back and forth with someone who has looked at this or is currently doing this. Cheap fuel is nice, even for my big gen during hurricane season when fuel may be hard to obtain.

 

[jsthnt@gmail.com]

I would think that in a multi you would just have to get the oil out and filtered. I had heard that the feul from this is not very stable. I am interested in what people are doing.

 

[andytk5]

I would think that in a multi you would just have to get the oil out and filtered. I had heard that the feul from this is not very stable. I am interested in what people are doing.

That could be true for the multi.

I hadn't come across it not being stable. Do you mean unstable like ethanol-laced gasoline phase seperating and absorbing water when stored for long periods.

I'm really interested to know what strain of algae to use (cynobacteria?), where to get it, how to collect it from the PBR. After you press out the oil can you reinsert the remaining algae back into the system to produce more hydrocarbons?

Most of the information I have come across goes through the overall process but is short on details.

 

[tequilaiam]

I'm not expert but have been reading about algae-based bio-D on and off for a few years. I think that the strain...or more accurately the BEST strain, is the million dollar question. At one point about 5 or 6 years ago I stumbled into a lengthy Department of Energy study that outlined several proposed processes and discusssed strains. The report was a wrap-up of maybe 10 years of experiments.

Now that there is more interest in it, I can't find it anymore. Its burried underneath all the grant du-jure studies and snake oil.

 

[tequilaiam]

I think I found a summary...though what I'm thinking of was a few thousand pages IIRC. Its refered to as the "close out report", linked from the powerpoint and other places on the internet. The link is now dead

www.nrel.gov/biomass/pdfs/24190.pdf

power point:
www.nrel.gov/biomass/pdfs/jarvis.pdf

"Petroleum at <$20/bbl in 1996 and "DOE expects petroleum costs to remain relatively flat over the next 20 years."

LOL.

Anyway, those aren't bad places to start I guess. If you figure it out, and avoid getting killed by "the powers that be"....keep us in mind in your new status as world's richest person.

 

[rosie]

There is a lot of biofuels/biotechnology research going on in North Carolina; I don't know anyone using this type of system but it would seem that the actual chemical structure of the vegetable oil pressed from the algae would affect the type of fuel being made from it. Canola is a big favorite for field growth; I just googled up PBR systems before getting on herre since I'd never heard of them before: really interesting but wonder at what scale you would have to produce to make it feasible.

 

[ODdave]

I had heard that the feul from this is not very stable. I am interested in what people are doing.

PBR is not very stable, Runs right through me......

 

[rosie]

You know what they say, you never really own PBR (or any other brew) you just rent it

 

[tequilaiam]

There is a lot of biofuels/biotechnology research going on in North Carolina; I don't know anyone using this type of system but it would seem that the actual chemical structure of the vegetable oil pressed from the algae would affect the type of fuel being made from it. Canola is a big favorite for field growth; I just googled up PBR systems before getting on herre since I'd never heard of them before: really interesting but wonder at what scale you would have to produce to make it feasible.

I don't think it matters if its converted to diesel vs. run as straight oil. The average length of the hydro-carbon chains in the feed stock would affect the energy density and yield I suppose but it SHOULD all work.

The research is all ag. based because big ag has all the lobyists. IIRC, that report laid out that per acre an algae pond could produce more than any bean.

There's a lot of interesting ideas out there. I recently read one about "artificial leafs" that would use sunlight to break hydrogen off of water which could, in theory, then be combined with CO2 from the atmosphere to make synthetic liquid fuels that are drop-in replacements for RUG or diesel. It seems to be all about the scalability. Unless some of these exotic processes can be done at ambient temperature it will be really costly to go large scale.

OTOH, when fuel is $8/gal in a few years it may not look too bad.

 

[gimpyrobb]

The link is bad, but here is a conv we had about this.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/alternative-fuels/23383-extremely-interesting-new-fuel-source.html

 

[youngunbd]

Just saw this thread. I do algae research. Mainly because I don't want a real job so i figured I could make my own. Depending on the algae type, it can produce 5,000+ gallons per acre per year... soy is 90 gallons.

But those figures are old and based on horizontally laid out systems. As in a large raceway, several hundred feet long with a foot deep of water.... Incredibly inefficient these systems are. And the report I think you mentioned was the ASP Aquatic Species Project. Was commisioned in 1978 I believe to find an alternative to petrol. What they found was the algae that created some of the reserves in the gulf of mexico has been growing in ponds in texas for god knows how long. the oil from that algae is hydrocarbons and can be processed like petroleum, its named Botryoccocus Braunii. BUT the downsides to that algae is that it grows really sloooooooow, as in duplicates every 2-4 days or so even in optimal conditions. Costly algae!

Being 18 gives me the advantage (as I see it) of being cheap. I am already looking for the cheapest way to do everything! So all my work is funneled toward getting algae based bio-diesel (maybe name it algae-diesel) to the public at least in small numbers by August 2012, and it being profitable and cheaper than petrol.

The best way for me to do that is to keep costs real low.... Currently there is a company here in CA complaining about high costs for their fuel.... The warehouse they rent (for $33 a sq/ft) is in the middle of one of the costliest cities to live in!

So fail on their part. I can't afford the 1.50 a sq ft of waterproofing material to make a huge raceway so I began with an algae that will allow me to grow it in tanks... so instead of having 17,000 gallons spread over a full acre, I can have 20,000 gallon tanks in a cheap warehouse somewhere. The lights are cheap and can be powered by solar, the pump as well. Basically, I try to do things as cheaply as possible but can't give away too much!

 

[rosie]

Love to hear more: I know some people doing duckweed in NC on wastewater lagoons but don't know how the technology translates. Keep it up, being "cheap" is just being good old American frugal!

 

[youngunbd]

most waste treatment plants use some sort of algae or bacteria to digest waste. It has been used for quite some time.

I know some who have experimented feeding algae with compost, but I have something even better that people will darn near pay me to get rid of it for them!

I also see some people who keep algae cultures for when the world ends because the #1 problem would be sanitation... well feed your waste to algae, they take care of it, and you can run generators off it

My algae puts out an oil that is very good for WVO or turning into bio-diesel.... None of the other algaes seem profitable or suitable in my systems

 

[derby]

PBR is not very stable, Runs right through me......

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[deuceaid]

subscribed

 

[youngunbd]

well heres a bit more information.... Most people who work on it now (yahoo group) Are basically at the stage of reducing costs. Everyone has their own little secret method to making the algae grow faster. Most people use chemicals to extract oil from algae... But that costs about a dollar a gallon and that sucks soooo bad. My biodiesel guy cringes when he hears people buying veggy oil for .23 cents a gallon. So costs must be low

Basically I'm at the point of scaling up all of my operations, algae growth methods are relatively down pat, processing the algae is a learning process, and turning it into bio diesel is not a worry for me at all, got too many offers to set up bio-diesel processors already

questions/comments anyone??

I love talking about algae because I really am hoping this will all work out for me, plus I have had several great idea's just by putting my thoughts out there then while talking the lightbulb turns on!

 

[Vintage iron]

I don't think Algae is the best way to get oil. Since it is gown in water, it is full of water. The cost and labor of separating the water will not be worth it. Why not just grow peanuts. Some of the first "diesel" engines were made to run on peanut oil not diesel. Diesel was just a cheap by product of petroleum refinment. Peanuts have a lot of oil, are easy to grow and taste good too!

 

[youngunbd]

wheres your proof, my labor costs of getting the algae out of the water is opening a valve, turning on a pump, getting lunch and then removing the contents from the mechanism


I do not seperate the water before removing the oil from the algae. i separate the oil from the algae then put it all in containers to settle out, then suck the oil off the top, taking the left over water and putting it back into the growers then using the algae shell as fertilizer or it can be used as a highly nutritious animal feed.... Im too cheap to make all my containers "food grade" but the algae nutrition market for humans isnt that big anyways

plus peanuts require lots of land, farm equipment. Strict rules and regulations to farm. Plus can peanuts give 5,000+ gallons an acre per year?

 

[Vintage iron]

I want to see your operation. Sounds interesting if it is just that easy? I have a farm so nutritious animal feed will come in handy.

 

[youngunbd]

Heh thats the bad part about the internet. Just showing a picture of one of the growers kind of gives away my own little growth secret.

The algae I grow that is sold for human consumption contains almost all of the vitamins except vitamin B, also contains amino acids and all... let me dig up the nutritional information for the others, I havnt had mine tested yet. Been more focused on the fuel

I specifically made my processes easy, meaning that I dont have a man standing there with a filter and another pouring algae water over it. (there is a youtube video of a company doing that)

My current hang up is the large scale removal of oil from algae, basically Im still working out the kinks of turning my small rig into a production rig.... by no means is it beautiful, I think I'm on my third roll of duct tape!