Any members own a wood gas powered mv?

[Smokindieseldually]

Almost all non-military trucks and buses in Finland and many other european countries were operating with wood gas during the second World War and even up to the early 50's. All gasoline available went to military use. I have heard that the Finnish army used a couple of wood gas powered trucks even in 1964.I have also researched and read the U.S military had also used wood gas powered and converted trucks overseas during wartimes.I am curious if any Steel Soldiers members own one of these unique vehicles?Apparently once you have aquired some basic knowledge of the system and it's workings they are very reliable and efficient to run.I have posted a few links in case you have no idea what im talking about.I am currently contemplating building and or converting a old gasser deuce to this system just to be unique.Any input would be appreciated.Chek em out @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas or a great video @ http://youtube.com/watch?v=hSgL0Ie4zrI&mode=related&search

 

[Smokindieseldually]

Please inform me if I have posted this in the wrong forum.

 

[pa.rich]

So correct me if I am wrong . the engine runs off the gas in the wood fire to fuel the engine . Gasoline or diesel engines ??I would be interested in seeing how its carbuerated or sent to a diesel engine.

 

[CARNAC]

Here is a article on the holzgas. Germans made more than a fair amount of use of these systems. Also have seen pictures of they system in occupied countries (wood was about the only fuel they had).

I also think they made use of these systems in armored vehicles to perform driver training and movement of vehicles during the manufacturing process during the final acceptance trials of the chassis and suspension.

I seem to recall the Army had a technical intell article on it in one of their bulletins and a picture of one was in the illustrate WWII encyclopedia.

Definately one of the forgotten pieces of history.

 

[CARNAC]

Uh...so much for that attachment. Let's try it this way, cut and paste.

http://ww2.whidbey.net/jameslux/woodgas.htm

WOODGAS POWERED VW'S AND OTHER VEHICLES

Click HERE for an 86K JPG image of a wood gas generator equipped Kubelwagen and Type 60 Beetle.



Fuel shortages during WWII prompted searches for alternative fuels in England, Germany, Scandinavia and many other countries. One of the most unusual solutions involved the modification of vehicles for use with wood, charcoal, or coal. Typical modifications included A) a gas generator; B) a gas reservoir; and C) carburetor modifications and additional plumbing to convey, filter, and meter the gas into the engine.

The gas generator was an airtight vessel into which was introduced a charge of wood, charcoal, or anthracite coal. Heat was applied to the fuel either internally or externally to initiate a self-sustaining gassification of the fuel in an oxygen deprived environment. The resulting "woodgas" was piped to the reservoir, or in the case of small engines, directly to the engine carburetor. Wood-gas modified vehicles were therefore technically a "dual fuel" vehicle in that a self-sustaining gassification of the wood charcoal, or coal required another fuel to start the process.

Gas reservoir sizes depended upon vehicle, engine, and gassifier size. Small vehicles and engines could be supplied directly from the gassifer, thus eliminating large reservoirs. Larger, more powerful vehicles required separate gas reservoirs to compensate for gassifer outputs which were less than the fuel consumption rate of the engine. These larger reservoirs usually took the form of gas bags that were attached to the roof or rear end of the vehicle. The largest mobile reservoirs were gas bags fitted to busses which were often several feet in diameter and as long as the vehicle.

Although the designation T230 was used to indicate woodgas fuel systems fitted to both Kubelwagens and KdF Wagens (Type 60 wartime Beetles), surviving phototgraphs reveal that a variety of gas generator designs and hood sheet metal were employed. Vehicles so equipped are easily recognized by the vehicle's modified hood (28K JPG). Some photos show that the fuel loading hatch protruded from a port in the hood, while others illustrate an unbroken hoodline which completely enclosed the generator. Generally the woodgas fuel system comprised a gassifier container (20K JPG) approximately 18 to 24 inches in diameter and 30 to 36 inches in length (height) fitted into the nose of the vehicle. Both Kubelwagens and Beetles equipped with the T230 gas generator located the generator vessel ahead of the front axle beams where the spare tire was formerly located. Type 60's relocated the spare tire, along with extra bags of fuel, to a roof rack (28K JPG) on the roof of the vehicle. The bottom of the gas generator also extended below the original bodywork at the front of the vehicle, thus decreasing obstacle clearance.

Other components of the VW T230 woodgas fuel system included:
1) a large (8" diameter by 30") gas filter cannister located just ahead of the windshield (and under the hood, in the case of the Type 60)
2) a secondary, rectangular gas filter (about 12" by 2" by 48") located crossways beneath the car behind the front wheels
3) a gas pump or fan located behind the rear torsion bar tube
4) a small final cannister filter in the engine bay
5) a fuel mixer at the engine intake manifold.

Click HERE for an 80K GIF of a wood-gas powered Kubelwagen.
Click HERE for a 77K GIF of a wood-gas powered VW Beetle that probably was fitted with four wheel drive!

My thanks for Chris Horn for loaning me his copy of VW Beetle At War by Dr. Hans-Georg Mayer (ISBN: 0-88740-400-6), from which much of the information on this page was gleaned. If you are interested in learning more about wartime VW Beetles, I highly recommend Dr. Mayer's book, available from Schiffer Publishing Ltd., 1469 Morstein Road, West Chester, PA, 19380, USA.

Information on wood gassifer equipped vehicles is limited, and I am currently looking for gassifer construction details, fuel metering details, and pictures of vehicles so equipped. If you know of any such information, or if you can direct me to manufacturing firms who currently produce such systems, please let me know!




Return to Lighthook's Kubelwagen Page
Return to Lighthook's Car Talk Page
Return to Lighthook's Main Page


James

 

[98hd]

I have been looking at this stuff recently, and would love to convert an old v8 I have to run off this stuff, then use it to run a generator. I would have to fabricate the system myself though. It would be nice if there was a way to store the gas. Thoughts of running it through an a/c compressor come to mind, not sure if it would be possible/safe though.

 

[wreckerman893]

There was an article in the local fishwrapper last year about a guy in Springville, AL that was running an old Ford (I think) pickup off wood gas.
The old "Mother Earth News" magazine had several articles on this subject too.
If anybody is interested I'll try to find my digital copy of the newspaper article'
I meant to look the guy up since like to meet people as strange as I am but I never found the time.
Maybe I'll get a "roundtuit" and head down that way next weekend.

 

[98hd]

Some info for those interested

http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/13.shtml

http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html

 

[reuben]

was just delving into history and found this topic. I built one last fall on my dodge truck and got it running. But afterwards decided I'd rather have something with less required time to process fuel, as it all has to be dry and cut up to no more than 4" chunks. + I like a nice powerful engine, and woodgas cuts the power output to 2/3 normal at best in a gas engine. Might do a little better in a diesel with pressurized input.

It's a downdraft gasifier which makes it easy to reload while running.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3145/2378237617_c621b8bab9_m.jpg

woodgas is equivalent to 105 octane so will run in a diesel engine, but it will not self ignite under compression so it requires either a small amount of diesel or spark ignition.


I've done a lot of alternative fuel research and I'm gonna think about it till I figger out a free fuel for a diesel. sonic split dihydrogen oxide may be usable but not directly without a modified engine, If I could figger out how to convert a diesel to utalize a vapor fuel with a super fast flame speed it might work. a natural gas engine with no advance on ignition may work.

gotta be super careful with this stuff though, when ya get something working, enjoy it secretly and don't tell a soul or you'll get hit with deadly opposition from the money hungry oil fools. I mean it! I know lots of inventors that have lost their lives over it in the last 80 years, there's just too much money in oil for the profiteers to let go of it without a real fight. But it's still an "underground" fight with the oil fools still aparently winning, (because they have money and can hire anyone killed they want gone) as they've managed to keep most of the general public ignorant of the obsolete nature of the oil industry.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

reuben, welcome to the site.

I'm glad your into all the alternative fuel ideas, but if you dont mind cut the conspiracy junk.

Oil companies could just as easily switch to selling the new equip required for a different enegy model. The facts are that at the present time, we dont have an alternative to oil for the masses. Several new technologies are becoming viable, but it takes time to bring costs down and gain market penetration. I believe we are at least 10years from being off of oil, it may be longer if the general population doesnt realize that we all need to look into alternative fuel.

 

[davidkroberts]

yeah i was thinking about building a woodgas engine eventually. I was thinking of a more static setup to run a generator. The logistics involved in running/ operating a mobile unit would cause problems unto itself. But for powering a cabin or Powerpack at a rally..... might work. A slightly worn out milspec genset would probably be a good candidate.

Now that diesel and gas are hitting 5 a gallon maybe this idea should be revisted. I would be willing to bet a Bullydog propane additive system would make things go allot easier.

 

[Jones]

I think I recall a picture in a book on early Fords showing a late 30s early 40s Ford car with that set-up in it's trunk area.
Sure would be nice to reduce gasoline and diesel to the realm of being only one choice for a fuel; instead of the only choice.
First though we'd have to wean people off of their need-for-speed mentality as almost all hybrids or alternative fuel vehicles aren't exactly road rockets.

 

[Floyd]

In Finland they have an Air Museum close to Helsinki Vanta airport. Displayed are one or two military trucks from the war that were wood powered. It really freaked me out to think they ran vehicles that many years ago on wood stoves. Trees and forest they have no shortage of and I thought a never ending fuel supply, very cool.

Floyd

 

[davidkroberts]

well i love to tinker and, like everyone else, i have enough spare parts around to probably get a good start on this project. Has anyone on the site ever tried this with a Genset? Ive read many of the online articles but would like to talk to someone who has already at least tried it.

 

[reuben]

the only little quirk I've heard of in running a stationary unit is bridging of fuel in the hopper, a moving vehicle gives enough jiggling to shake it down most of the time and if it bridges it'll loose power. I thought it through and decided a taller hopper with no sholders in it along with using even size chips for fuel might solve it.

As for the "conspiracy theory", It's not theory, but fact, but you don't believe it exists because they've done a very good coverup job and managed to make the world think alternatives don't exist. It takes free thinking, technical understanding, and a lot of digging to uncover all the corruption, I've uncovered it and it stinks to high heaven.
the first oil replacement technology was invented and patented in 1922, oil corp bought it and sat on it, second one invented and patented in 1936, bought and sat on again. and it's been going on ever sence with more and more oil replacement technologies, till oil could have been replaced by cheap or 0 cost energy a dozen times over. ok I'll shut up, if someone dosn't want to know the truth there's nothin i can say to help.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

the issue is not there there aren't replacement technologies out there, its that to convert the entire economy is not an overnight thing. If fusion reactors were perfected tomorrow, it would take years to get the power plants replaced with them. There are many more vehicles than power plants so you understand the logistics. Plus new tech is expensive, many simply dont have the money to purchase a new vehicle even if it means not running on oil. Sure the government could heavily subsidize the costs, but that would mean many other programs that need funding would go without.

 

[roger-wilco-66]

I remember my grandfather telling stories of the not-so-good old times and holzgas powered vehicles. They operated a small pickup that way - and rotated the duty of maintaining the kettle (right term?) weekly between the participants, because that was the most shitty and unthankful job one could think of. He talked about some stinking, black, tar-like residue and soot that had to be cleaned out regularly out of the bottom of the kettle, and also maintaining the right smoldering temperature for the wood and keeping it going for a while was a little science of itself. The little truck had hardly any power and the participants/co-drivers had to get out on certain well hated uphill grades and help to push the pickup up and over the top...

I don't think that works with Diesels, since the "working component" in Holzgas is mainly carbon mono-oxide and methane and that won't self ignite at Diesel compressions. Correct me if I'm wrong. You also can't use any wood, in Germany you were only allowed to burn certain controlled beech wood types and certainly not fresh wood - it has to be dried thoroughly or you don't get the process started or get too much condensate which adds to the frustration of the kettle-cleaner. Also, in the soot is formic and acetic acid, which is a hefty corrosion problem to the kettle and the whole system, including the motor.
All in all its a very unefficient fuel type: only 10% of the "dry-destilled" gas is methane, the rest is carbon-dioxide (50%), and carbon-monoxide (33%), acidic water depending on the moisture of the wood, and small amounts of ethene and variations of hydrogen. Percentage depends on the type of wood, the temperatures, process, and so on.

Oh well.

 

[wreckerman893]

This is something I would like to try in my spare time (HAHAHAHAHA).
It would be great just to have the knowledge just in case the fuel situation gets worse.
I think it would work on a diesel...I have seen Detroit diesels that ran backup generators at my old unit configured to run on natural gas.
Any other mad scientists in my area game to try it.
We can borrow one of FreightTrains engines he has stored at my place .

 

[roger-wilco-66]

Maybe it was a glowplug-type diesel? I also read about holzgas-Diesels that have an additional oil-injection; here a small amount of oil is injected, which serves as an initial ignitor so the holzgas can fire upon it.

 

[Sumoman]

Well you would not be the first. We are also going to convert my new deuce to run on wood gas as well. You have to get past the need for lube internally for which the fuel is supposed to provide. We are already building one to add to the truck. Try looking up Werners Chevrolet.. a guy running a V-8 on woodgas