Bellhousing issue

[pistolnut]

I want to do the Spicer 3053A (M-35) transmission upgrade on my 715 that is getting the Chevy350 repower. Spicergear did this on his truck and I think a lot of his tech was used in writing this article in JP magazine:

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticl..._transmission/

I found a source for bellhousings that are slightly different than the one that is known to work. Below is a photo from the article of the "correct" bellhousing.



I have found identical bellhousings without the hole drilled at the bottom (6 o'clock) position. The two holes above that (at 5 and 7 o'clock) don't exist either. There are bosses for all but the only holes are the two at the top and the two outboard mounting holes (4 and 8 o'clock) which are present in this picture below the input shaft.



I seem to remember somebody posting about using this bellhousing, they were simply going to drill the missing holes. Has anybody successfully done this? Should I get this bell or keep looking? I'm thinking it would be a machine shop job to have the holes drilled correctly, take them the transmission and all.

 

[jeli]

I'm confused. I've read the article and don't understand how a tall deck block would have a different bell housing connection. An SM 465 trans takes a bell housing with a 5 1/8" center hole which is larger than a std car trans. I get that the truck 5 speeds and 3035 trannies need the same bell housing but I thought tall deck and std deck big blocks had the same bell housing bolt pattern. I'm very curious about this because I have a potential 454 to use in a deuce when the day comes.

 

[mangus580]

Not speaking from experience here.... but:

If you get a couple transfer punch inserts, you can thread them into the holes on the tranny you need to drill for. Put the bell housing on using the bolt holes you can, and tap with a hammer at the other locations. This will mark your holes nicely, and allow you to drill them. Just make sure when you are ready to actually mark the holes, you have the bellhousing in the position you want, as there is always a little slop in bolt holes. If you arent careful, you might make it difficult to get all the bolts in later.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I was kinda thinking along the lines of mangus. If it would help, I could get a rub off one of my bellhousings and mail it to you. Then you would know where to drill.

 

[pistolnut]

Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

I'm confused. I've read the article and don't understand how a tall deck block would have a different bell housing connection. An SM 465 trans takes a bell housing with a 5 1/8" center hole which is larger than a std car trans. I get that the truck 5 speeds and 3035 trannies need the same bell housing but I thought tall deck and std deck big blocks had the same bell housing bolt pattern. I'm very curious about this because I have a potential 454 to use in a deuce when the day comes.

The bolt pattern where the bellhousing bolts to the engine is the same. On the transmission side is where it matters which housing you get as to whether it will bolt to a 3053A.

Gimpyrobb, I was planning on doing (or having a machine shop do) something very much like what Magnus was describing. I like the rubbing idea though as a way of confirming (measure twice, cut once). I'll PM you my addy.

 

[jeli]

Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

I'm confused. I've read the article and don't understand how a tall deck block would have a different bell housing connection. An SM 465 trans takes a bell housing with a 5 1/8" center hole which is larger than a std car trans. I get that the truck 5 speeds and 3035 trannies need the same bell housing but I thought tall deck and std deck big blocks had the same bell housing bolt pattern. I'm very curious about this because I have a potential 454 to use in a deuce when the day comes.

The bolt pattern where the bellhousing bolts to the engine is the same. On the transmission side is where it matters which housing you get as to whether it will bolt to a 3053A.

Gimpyrobb, I was planning on doing (or having a machine shop do) something very much like what Magnus was describing. I like the rubbing idea though as a way of confirming (measure twice, cut once). I'll PM you my addy.

I'm with you on the trans side being different. The next question is I thought all small blocks, std big blocks, and tall decks have the same bolt pattern. If that is true then the adaptor shown must be required on all chevys to mount this bell housing.

 

[gimpyrobb]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

Yes it is. I've gotten them off of 350s and 366s.

 

[gimpyrobb]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

Pics

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/gimpyrob...60762339971169

 

[Barrman]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

Jelli, Look at the JP picture you posted. That adaptor makes enough room for a bigger than normal light duty bellhousing. The bigger bell allows a 13" clutch behind an Chevy V8 engine. It just happens that the bigger 13" clutch bellhousings are the only ones that bolt up directly or as in this thread, almost directly to a 3053A transmission. They also mount the starter a little bit differently as well.

 

[jeli]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

I'm clear now. The way the article was written it wasn't clear all engines need the adaptor. If you have one we need to make a template of it. I have the resources to get quality ones done. Not that a steady hand and a plasma cutter couldn't work too.

 

[Channing]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

I am in the middle of mating an 427 TB BBC to a 3053A like in the JP artical. BUT now I have hit a road block with the rating on the 13" cast iron flywheel it's made for a diesel or a 4500 RPM governed truck motor. I have been told in two places not to use this flywheel with a HP gas motor. any suggestions????

 

[Barrman]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

Pistolnut found the adaptor plates and Sermis found the bellhousings. Now, they can both do this swap.

We have also figured out that the NP200 10 spline input yoke is just a hair or rather a good WHACK with a BFH from fitting onto the output shaft of the 3053A. I haven't spent any time messing with it since my Gasser keeps asking to be made more green. But, I will figure out which one needs to have its size altered just a little to make them fit together. This will prevent just about any conversion u-joint problems for those of you wondering why I think this is such a big deal.

The 13" clutch, flywheel and pressure plate were produced behind Tall Deck engines in the C40-C70 series trucks. They were never expected to get more than 4500 rpm in that application. I don't see why they wouldn't work higher. But, if you are building something that will live above that rpm, a Tall Deck might not really be your best engine to go with anyway. I am not a clutch expert. But, I really can't see why it wouldn't work. Spicergear has a 427 Tall Deck with a 3053A living behind it in his M715. I know he has hit more than 4500 rpm on more than one occasion.

The trouble we are having now is reasonably priced throw out and pilot bearings. The throwout comes as a bearing with a housing. The entire housing is needed. The cheapest we have found so far is in the $130 range. Anybody have a better source?

 

[sermis]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

Tim I have 2 or 3 takeout that came with the bells I have.

 

[Channing]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

Thanks for your input. Cast iron flywheels are strictly for low RPM aplications they will explode at high RPM's. I plan on spinning this fast and hard in deep mud racing. So I need a steel or aluminium 13" flywheel or change to a 12" flywheel with perferably a SFI bellhousing. Has anybody tried to put an aftermarket bellhousing on a 3053A??? You input will be appreciated. Oh yeah Sermis I have a Ramsey PTO winch for sale Thanks Channing

 

[sermis]

RE: Re: RE: Bellhousing issue

I need a flywheel for the 13" clutch to go on my 350 with the one piece rear main seal, anybody know which one will work?

 

[Channing]

3053A bellhousing

A ha now your having the same problem I am having. You need to find a 1988 or earlyer Chevy heavy truck with a SM465 thats the year they stopped using them. That has a v-8 with a one piece seal crank . i think the one piece seal started in 1986. The guy in the JP artical had the exsact same problem he went back to the old motor.
I am trying to go to a 11" or 12" clutch with an SFI bellhousing

 

[Channing]

RE: 3053A bellhousing

Sermis I looked all night for you I can't find any one piece seal large truck flywheels. You can go on www.gmpartsdirect.com and read the story in 1986 they changed everything engine and drive line. You may be out of luck

 

[sermis]

RE: 3053A bellhousing

Well I had another idea. The old motors had the starter mounted to the bellhousing. The newer motors the starter mounts to the motor. I might be able to use my current flywheel and starter with the old cast bellhousing if I can adapt a clutch fork.

 

[pistolnut]

RE: 3053A bellhousing

What is the difference with the one piece rear main seal? How do the flywheels differ?

 

[Tanner]

Howdy fellas...

The flywheels differ in bolt pattern depending on the crank using a 1-pc or 2-pc rear seal -

Ummm, I'm not a rocket scientist (well, sort of) but you COULD use a 3053 gasket as a bolt pattern guide for drilling the bellhousing... - but I'm no genius

I'm working on my 6.2/3053A swap into an M37... using C60 bellhousing/adaptor plate/etc., as well. Bought my setup on Fleebay; came with bellhousing, adaptor, flywheel, bolts, etc.

Just bought a clutch kit on Fleebay as well; $85.00 (free shipping) for reman unit w/ 12/12 warranty; came with p plate/disc/release bearing, pilot bearing (useless) & alignment tool. New units are 2-5 times more with 12/12 warranty, so I'll give the $85 clutch kit a try -

See below:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chev...8945851QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Be aware that some of the C-series GM big bellhousings have a groove/channel in the face that mates to the 3053A that will cause trans lube leaks - I'm going to fill mine in with epoxy & surface the area smooth for a good seal.

For transfer punches, I've used bolts that I cut the head off of, then ground the head end to a conical point & threaded the part into the bolt hole that needed to be transferred. Cheaper than sourcing transfer punches...

Back-yard engineering at it's finest!

"Tanner"