CARC Scratches

[USMC6062]

I've used the single component "383 Green" CARC from Sherwin Williams, and like everything about it other than it scratches so easy. Has everyone else had this same experience? I asked another member about the waterborne CARC and he said it scratches easy too. Does anyone have experience with both kinds and knows if one scratches easier than the other? The waterborne kind uses a hardener, so I would thing it doesn't scratch as bad. Both my trucks have CARC on them from the military, and they don't scratch so easy, so I wonder if the military uses something different?

 

[Nonotagain]

There are three specifications for CARC.

Mil-Dtl-53039...single component, Mil-Prf-46168...two part solvent based, and Mil-Dtl-64159....two component waterborne

All three versions have the same pencil hardness requirements after fluid immersion testing in various solvents and oils.

If your CARC feels somewhat like 80 grit sandpaper, it was applied too dry and will have small "BB’s" on the surface instead of a continuo’s coating of polyurethane pigments and resin.

The only other thing that you can do to get the coating to be a bit tougher is to oven cure the applied coating within 24 hours of application.

 

[BKubu]

I have used at least two different kinds of CARC and all of it scuffs easily. It does seem to do better as it ages. It is almost as if it would be best if you left the truck under cover for a year or more. I know that trucks I've had that had older CARC did not scuff as easily as freshly painted trucks. One solution...go with the tan CARC...you don't see the scuffs as easily.

 

[USMC6062]

There are three specifications for CARC.

Mil-Dtl-53039...single component, Mil-Prf-46168...two part solvent based, and Mil-Dtl-64159....two component waterborne

All three versions have the same pencil hardness requirements after fluid immersion testing in various solvents and oils.

If your CARC feels somewhat like 80 grit sandpaper, it was applied too dry and will have small "BB’s" on the surface instead of a continuo’s coating of polyurethane pigments and resin.

The only other thing that you can do to get the coating to be a bit tougher is to oven cure the applied coating within 24 hours of application.

Everything I've sprayed has come out smooth, it's way better than the finish the military gives. I restore cars for a living with my Dad, so I've grown up in the paint and body trade. I'm not gonna say that I'm not doing something wrong, but I don't think it's me, I think it's the paint. I have noticed too, the longer the stuff dries the tougher it seems to get. I would like to use the solvent based 2 part CARC, but I don't think they make it anymore.

 

[BKubu]

HENTZEN COATINGS make the two component paint...at least they did the last time I bought from them three years ago. I have gone with the Sherwin Williams recently.

 

[Nonotagain]

HENTZEN COATINGS make the two component paint...at least they did the last time I bought from them three years ago. I have gone with the Sherwin Williams recently.

Hentzen still makes the two part solvent based CARC, I recently got some in for use on some assemblies for a major helicopter manufacturer.

There have been no formulation changes to these products in many years.

What might be causing some of the problem that some people have observed is that even thoough the paint is made to "Mil-Spec" the manufacturers know tests their products on receipt verses who just relies on vendor certs.

Long and short of this is that the pigment size might be on the upper end of sizing and the gloss is probably very low due to pigment size. The only way to tell for sure would be to use a Hegman draw bar and check to fineness of grind.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[USMC6062]

I bought it straight from a Sherwin Williams industrial store. The guy told me they sell the exact same paint to military contractors in the area. I don't have a way of testing it, so I would have to assume it is what it's supposed to be. How do you buy from Hentzen Coatings? Do you know if they have a distributor in Jacksonville, FL?

 

[halftrack]

CARC paint scuffs easily - bottom line. We have new 7 tons, HUMVEES, tailers, we get all the time and it starts to get scuffed the second the first driver hops in the seat of the truck. That is the nature of the beast.

If you do not like this aspect of using the "real deal" I suggest using the imitation stuff provided by Gilipsie. It matches the color perfectly, however, it holds up much better and does not scuff like the real CARC.

 

[Nonotagain]

I bought it straight from a Sherwin Williams industrial store. The guy told me they sell the exact same paint to military contractors in the area. I don't have a way of testing it, so I would have to assume it is what it's supposed to be. How do you buy from Hentzen Coatings? Do you know if they have a distributor in Jacksonville, FL?

As I attempted to state earlier, the major paint manufacturers know which companies test their paints on receipt verses relying on the provided vendor certifications.

I, on average reject 1 out of 15 lots of paint sent to me for use on various aircraft parts due to not meeting one requirement or another. Does this make the manufacturer a bad company, no?

Paints age from the time they are produced till the time that you apply them. If you open a container and pick up the smell of ammonia, it's on a down hill slide. Swollen cans of catalyst are another give away that the product has an issue with moisture contamination.

CARC does scuff easily. If you want to hide the scuff mark, use a piece of a brown paper bag and use it like you would a piece of sand paper, just lightly. This also works for removing specs of FOD from painted parts that are coated with semi-gloss and other flat paint colors.

As for using Gillespie paint, I have no knowledge of this product, whether it's an epoxy, enamel or polyurethane.

 

[USMC6062]

So your saying if I was a contractor they would give me the "good stuff" knowing I would test it on my end? I know there wasn't any signs of being old or anything else that would make me suspect the paint as not being good. I don't have a way of testing paint, and I doubt I would anyways on something I own. I know from experience that single part paint isn't as durable as catalyzed paint. I guess that was my main question if the catalyzed CARC scratched as easy as single component CARC. I know any flat paint scratches easier than anything else, but I got some paint samples from TM9 Ordnance, and they are catalyzed flat urethanes and don't scratch hardly at all. I may be confusing ya'll some too, I keep calling it a scratch, but it's like a chalk mark that won't rub off.

 

[Nonotagain]

Flat finish paint does scuff easier than gloss or semi-gloss paints. Some colors show scuff marks faster than others due in part to the size and color of the pigments.

As for durability of the single verses two component CARC, I've seen no difference. The single component CARC has the catalyst already introduced into the mixture. The paint reacts with moisture for cure.

Most of my paint is shipped directly from the manufacturer via the distributor. The manufacturers know that my company tests all products received since they get material back form me with a discrepancy report. Once a company realizes that company X tests everything shipped and that rejections affect their quality rating, they pay extra attention to what they ship.

As part of a company being ISO certified, they have to maintain a quality system to track any rejections. Once they get to a certain level, they loose the ability to be ISO certified which can cause them to be de-listed from the qualified products list.

Paint that goes into the distributor level in most cases meets all the requirements for the spec. Some companies hold a tighter tolerance in their manufacture, so what I typically receive is as good as it gets.

Are the paint samples from TM9 printed of sprayed? The federal standard 595 color chips are printed on fiberboard not sprayed on metal and don't scuff at all.

IF the scuff marks bother you all that much, just scuff the entire paint job with the brown paper bag. This will keep all but the deepest scuffs from showing again.

 

[USMC6062]

TM9 samples are sprayed metal tags using the actual paint you can buy from them. I would just use their stuff, but it only comes in WWII colors.