Civilian wheel cylinders

[sgms18]

I have read several posts saying WC4419 will work on the deuce. Is there any difference between these wheel cylinders & the ones you get from the surplus places? Is one of higher quality than the other?

 

[porkysplace]

I have read several posts saying WC4419 will work on the deuce. Is there any difference between these wheel cylinders & the ones you get from the surplus places? Is one of higher quality than the other?

Generally the ones the surplus places have , have been sitting in a warehouse for 30 years if they are military surplus.
The part numbers are in the quick reference sheet in the stickies.

Edit; I bought some several years ago from Equipment parts company that were "NOS" and they were so rusted and pitted they were not even rebuiildable and of course no returns no refunds.

 

[tobyS]

I'm not sure, but I think my 73 Ford F600 4x4 has the same.

Check this out;

www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/MC/96359-07158867.html?utm_content=MC&utm_term=1980-1983+Ford+F600+Wheel+Cylinder+Centric+Front+Left+80-83+Ford+Wheel+Cylinder+81+1981&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsNWIlOqy3AIVB49pCh3osgeQEAkYAiABEgKUwfD_BwE&ad=47362750812

Edit...no sorry, they look different. I'll take a picture and add it. I have a NOS Rockwell for my truck.

 

[tobyS]

On a side note, I'm getting rust and probably a dry cup. I'll bring them in the house put a bit of brake fluid in them and primer paint them.

The wheel cylinder above is a Wagner FD-3087.

 

[tobyS]

Put this title into ebay.

NEW WHEEL CYLINDER FOR 2.5 TON M35A2

C& C is a vendor here.

 

[clinto]

Yes, there is a difference.

Look at this wheel cylinder spring:



Now look at this wheel cylinder spring:



Notice how the first (top) pictured spring has straight ends but the second (bottom) is tapered on the end?

The second (bottom) spring is what's correct and what you need and it's what the Napa 4419s have.

That tapering on the end of the spring pushes out on the wheel cylinder cups and keeps them sealed against the bore of the wheel cylinder. If you have the standard springs, the wheel cylinders won't leak but if the truck sits they'll let air in.

 

[tobyS]

Yea clinto...and a good price too. I like the NAPA paint job they show on their website, gloss black, but does it come that way?

 

[clinto]

Yea clinto...and a good price too. I like the NAPA paint job they show on their website, gloss black, but does it come that way?

No, they're bare metal with a very thin layer of cosmoline (so thin it might as well be WD40).

I paint all the wheel cylinders I install to keep them from rusting.

The WWII halftrack takes the same 4419 as the M44 series, this is a set I just installed.

 

[clinto]

Generally the ones the surplus places have , have been sitting in a warehouse for 30 years if they are military surplus.
The part numbers are in the quick reference sheet in the stickies.

Edit; I bought some several years ago from Equipment parts company that were "NOS" and they were so rusted and pitted they were not even rebuiildable and of course no returns no refunds.

I bought these NOS cylinders for a halftrack. This is how they showed up. To use these, you'd have to sandblast and hone them to get all the corrosion out.

 

[sgms18]

Yes, there is a difference.

Look at this wheel cylinder spring:

View attachment 735144

Now look at this wheel cylinder spring:

View attachment 735145

Notice how the first (top) pictured spring has straight ends but the second (bottom) is tapered on the end?

The second (bottom) spring is what's correct and what you need and it's what the Napa 4419s have.

That tapering on the end of the spring pushes out on the wheel cylinder cups and keeps them sealed against the bore of the wheel cylinder. If you have the standard springs, the wheel cylinders won't leak but if the truck sits they'll let air in.

This was one of my main concerns. Im no wheel cylinder engineer but I can definitely see where the tapered spring would seal better. Its good to know the NAPA part uses the correct spring.

Man some of those NOS wheel cylinders look like garbage! I don't know how people could sell stuff like that & still sleep at night.

 

[sgms18]

Summit has the Raybestos 4419 for $23 & free shipping over $100. I wonder if the Raybestos uses the tapered spring.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/agb-wc4419

 

[sgms18]

The Raybestos WK45 rebuild kit shows the correct spring. Would it be safe to assume that they also use the correct spring in there new WC?

 

[porkysplace]

I bought these NOS cylinders for a halftrack. This is how they showed up. To use these, you'd have to sandblast and hone them to get all the corrosion out.

View attachment 735160View attachment 735161View attachment 735162View attachment 735163View attachment 735164

Those are way nicer than the ones Equipment Parts shipped me .

 

[tobyS]

Box says Rockwell but I can't prove they are. Only 1 says Wagner. I took the one with the most surface rust apart and it was well lubed and had no rust inside at all. It does have the linear spring but note it has an end piece where the end of the spring is not direct to rubber.

 

[tobyS]

I don't have all of the bleeder and adapter fittings for mine (Wagner 3087 or equal) . I think the brake bleeder screw is 11596 and the adaptor is 50120 but I can't prove it (that part has an MPT not straight). On the adaptor, it is a 1/2"-20 straight thread and I believe it comes with a copper washer. Anyone know the adaptor or bleeder numbers for sure?

 

[tobyS]

I got mine from GL, so seem to have a mix. I have one without the spring end plate, 4 with it and a straight spring and 2 with the taper spring. Glad I took them fully apart to clean and relube.

i will replace the one that seems to be lighter and no steel cup.

Edit....ordered the (1) WK-45 kit at $11.40 delivered.

 

[clinto]

I got mine from GL, so seem to have a mix. .

At the end of the M44 service career, even the military was buying the wrong wheel cylinders. It's hard to say if they knew and didn't care or of vendor(s) changed the spring and didn't say anything and no one caught it.

 

[tobyS]

Here is my brake line on the truck and the fitting that came with a couple of the cylinders. On the truck uses a banjo bolt and the tube connects to it. I was hoping to replace the line with new components, but am not sure which fitting to use. There are a lot of brake lines that already have the end for a banjo bolt if I can find the right size (1/2-20 banjo bolt).

Any suggestions? Stainless would be nice.

 

[tobyS]

If you haven't seen it yet, here is an excellent reference;

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...LINE-REFERENCE-GUIDE-(Sizes-lengths-fittings)

I learned my A3 has 1 1/2" diameter front cylinders, not 1 3/8" like the A1 or A2. Hmmm....wonder if the 1 1/2 would work on the A1 or 2 if you wanted more front force (my guess is they did it because of the super singles on the A3).

For reference, the 1 1/2" Raybestos and Wagner number is WC37317. Wonder if anyone has put the larger cylinder on the A1 or A2 when they went to larger tires?

I may consider changing to the 1 1/2" all the way around since I'm going 4x4 (I wouldn't on a 6x6 as it may require more volume of oil that the MC cannot handle) but by eliminating 2 of the 6, would seem to be about right on my A3.

 

[sgms18]

Well I just ordered 6 of the UP4419 from the local NAPA and all new hoses. Hope that keeps me sealed up for a few years. The Raybestos from Summit was a little cheaper but the NAPA is lifetime warranty.