Deuce driving in snow

[digitaldust]

how well does a M109a3 do in the snow ? with NDT's 900x20

any thing tip's etc i should know

 

[Stretch44875]

Keep it out of the ditches and you should be fine. Extra weight from the shop van body will help. I've driven throught some pretty good snows with the M35, only times stuck was when I backed in ditch, and parked on a snowpile.

 

[jwaller]

get some chains

 

[rlwm211]

My experience with a deuce I had previously, an M211, was that it was fine in open terrain, and on level surfaces, but uneven ground and any kind of wet slimy snow or ice and the truck was essentially helpless. If a blizzard hit today and I had to choose betweeen my deuce and my suburban with aggressive mud and snow tires, I would choose the suburban EVERY TIME.

I am sure chains will help and also if the tires were not military tires it would help.

I did not buy my deuce to drive in the snow knowing the liimitations it would have before hand.

 

[tsmall07]

I've heard that Michelin XLs will help a lot in the snow. True?

 

[cbvet]

My M35 with NDTs, empty, does poorly in snow. Level ground is okay, but with any kind of side angle it will slip sideways.
I don't know how much the weight of the shop van will help, but I would guess it would help a lot.
I carry chains but haven't had to use them yet. I have a long tow strap too.
The Michelin 1100-20 radials on another Deuce do much better.

 

[emr]

I have to say NDT's rule, I have many years of experience with them in all types of condiotns, this is one of those areas where the driver will make all the difference, first of all, Follow the simple directions of tire pressure in the manule, AS these tires can be aired down to 15 pounds, and that is a tremendous thing about these tires they will perform all of there dutys in even these extreme conditions, Now chains are the best Michelins are just better tech, and a better tire, BUT like I said a driver will make the difference here, Practice where u can get pulled out by a truck your size or smaller, get the feel of the truck and do not just crash into a huge pile high center and blame the tires, in fact when U get stuck do not blame the tires, The 900's are the tire of choice because of there width in mud and snow, they will perform as awesome as can be expected, In fact i do have side by side comparison of 1100s ndts and the 14oos in mud and on a five ton the ndts were far superior, did not float and slide about, U want your tire to cut thru the snow or mud, and as for ice, all bets are off anytire, this is where U as a driver will show how much U think about the area U are driving in, always get out and inspect the area if it looks awesome i mean hazerdas, Your truck will be hampered by hieght only, fell the gears ,low is not always the best, momentum and rpm's are sometimes what U need, air em down to 25 to 30 and start there, be a smooth driver , the straight 6 is the engine of choice here and u have it for even slow torque, But no truck is beyond getting stuck, how stuck U get depends on U, as long as no one gets hurt getting stuck is awesome too.....If U are going into this with idea of doing some serious driving in rough conditons make sure U have a back up vehicle to get U out....all the best enjoy and learn, feel the truck, it works....Randy

 

[4x4 Forever]

It all depends on the driver.

 

[cbvet]

I have no doubt that "airing down" the tires would give you much better traction in snow, but how practical is that idea?
I guess if I was just going to drive around my place in the snow, it wouldn't be too bad. When I was done I could just pull into the shop & air them up.
But, say you drive several miles to a buddy's place to haul out some firewood. Once you get there, you air down the tires to get through the snow. Then after loading wood for a few hours, & hauling it up to the house, you have to fill all those tires back up, using onboard air. Very slow process.
Or suppose you're runnin' 'shine & the law is after you................
Anyway, I think the Michelin radials work a lot better. At least for me. And I've been driving in the snow for way too many years.

 

[LanceRobson]

I have M35s with both dual NDTs and single XLs. The XL is far and away a better snow, sand and mud tire. The difference is great enough that I hope to switch my "pretty" M35A2C w/w to dual XLs.

The NDTs give a quieter and smoother ride, particularly at slow to medium speeds where you can feel the lugs on the XLs. Below 30-35 MPH I can feel the vibration from the XLs lugs through the stering wheel. I don't know if that affects front suspension parts longevity but I keep a really close eye on the front end to be sure it's OK.

As stated above, NDTs will work "OK" in powder snow on relatively level ground but will not do anywhere nearly as well as the XLs on side slopes or hills. The NDTs are poor in any kind of deep wet snow. If you are patient and can avoid sudden stops, downshifting and acceleration you can still do well with the NDTs. You need a subtle touch on the brakes with the NDTs in snow. Due to less traction being available they will lead to locked up brakes in a hurry. Anything more than a dusting of wet snow on grass can be a real challenge to NDTs where the XLs lugs dig right through and grip.

My only issue with XLs in cross country driving in snow came with grainy wind blown snow where I was dragging the differentials and the rear wheels started hopping and spinning while driving an empty truck uphill. I flipped the front axle to "IN" and it took off like it had gotten a kick in the pants. Other than that, I've pushed through snow drifts that were bumper deep to a winch equipped truck with the XLs. Most of the snow that day was up to the top of the axle beams. The NDTs wouldn't have gotten off the road under those conditions, let alone cross county.

I will admit that the XLs leave a much more noticeable tire track on the lawn though. where the NDT leaves a shallow trough the XL leaves a row of dents from the lugs that take forever to smooth out.

In any case, be very sure your brakes are properly adjusted or else the better adjusted ones will lock up often while the poorly adjusted ones keep turning.

If I have any snow or mud to deal with the NDT trucks stay home.

Lance

 

[rosco]

Airing up & down is text book stuff. It takes a lot of time 7 its a cold dirty job, and there is also the risk of finding a faulty valve stem that just leaks off the air.

Otherwise, JAWALLER nailed it. Chain her, all the way around and you'll be ready to go someplace. NDT's are notorious for being dangerous on snow & Ice.

The truck is not "fool proof", so it requires a driver with at least common sense!


Lee in Alaska

 

[greenjeepster]

The best option if you want to keep your NDT is to buy a set of winter tires. The problem with the NDT is the smooth flat band of rubber down the middle. The tire curves from there upwards when it is making contact with the ground so the actual tread cut does not make much contact with a hard surface like pavement. When pavement gets wet from snow NDTs slip.

Essentially airing down the tires lowers the actual tread so they make contact with the road. NDT = too much smooth surface area for snow traction, just like Super Swampers on any 4x4 kills its traction in snow.

Now the driver can make all the difference in the world, but why struggle with sub-par tires when you can get a set that will make it a 100x better?

Anybody who lives in northern states have seen the Canadian truck drivers fly by you on the interstate in whiteout conditions. Their trick is that they are on an aggressive, low surface area tread tire and know how to drive in the snow.

Check your local laws, tire chains are not an option in some states. You can also get a set of studded tires if they are legal in your area.

Knocking your duels down to singles will also help in the snow.

 

[stumps]

I will offer one bit of advice that results from a lesson I learned the hard way: Keep your front axles engaged whenever you are on slippery stuff!

The front differential presents a large amount of drag as its gears and bearings pump all of that 90W gear oil. This makes your front wheels want to stop turning in slippery conditions... especially when the differential oil is cold. If your front wheels aren't turning, your truck is not steering. It is going to go anywhere it wants to go! Usually into a ditch.

The other thing you see happen, if you are running with the front wheels disengaged in slippery stuff, is the rear wheels have traction and are pushing, pushing, pushing along, but the front wheels are skidding and dragging, and that is a very unstable condition. The rear wheels want to pass those slow poke front wheels, and be done with them. Now you are in a spin. Leave the front wheels engaged on snow and ice.

I would venture that a lot of the snow and ice problems you guys have experienced with NDT tires is due to not leaving the front wheels engaged.

-Chuck

 

[croftonaviation]

I have a question I hope is not out of place. will the michellen XL fit on a stock deuce rim? also so I have this straight if you were to run singles you would flip the hubs on the rear axles? correct?

Thanks

 

[LanceRobson]

I have a question I hope is not out of place. will the michellen XL fit on a stock deuce rim? also so I have this straight if you were to run singles you would flip the hubs on the rear axles? correct?

Thanks

Yes, the 11.00R20 XLs fit the stock rim.

My truck had flipped hubs when it came from GL and since the dual rim has more dish than the older style M34 single rear tire rim the track is still about 2 to 2-1/2" narrower than it was with the M34s. With the flipped hubs I've never felt like the track was too narrow but, for my tastes, the look of the truck suffers somewhat even with the hubs flipped.

Lance

 

[emr]

Many deuce rims are stamped max tire size 1200 It is in a milion threads here, they work and also work as deuls , that is how i have em set up, 11oo XL,s on deuce rims as deuls, actually uncle sam did it first...NDT's are an outdated design and so are these trucks, neither was ever meant to be everything , but for what they are both are awesome, I have alot of rough miles on these tires and feel they are just fine, anytire should be aired down in these conditions, they should be aired down ahead of time if possible, for the real military truck experience i love em and will run em next to anyone, The center tread is not a factor in an aired down tire, it is when the tire is folding that makes em work and that is when they were designed to work, that is why they have such big tire pressure differences, I have found 40 pounds in the rears are awesome in all weather, exept extreme conditions, and 45 in the front, but for snow i would do 25 in the back and 35 in the front, ...just sayin...And would add again chains are the ultmate, and as for airing down being hard it is easier than swapping tires,,,,I am just sying these is more than one opinion and that anyone should feel ok to airem down and try em, before changing them, they may just feel they are more than good for what they are doing, and they look way cool too....all the best....

 

[11Echo]

This is the successful setup the Canadians use on their deuce's.

Tubeless Michelin 11.00x20 XZL's the tire of choice.

 

[Nonotagain]

This is the successful setup the Canadians use on their deuce's.

Nice Canuck truck.

I like the marker lights and the roof rack, the two piece wheels, and the tire tread that they are using. And I really like that high mount winch.

Looks like they learned much faster that the US did about what tires worked and what tires didn't.

 

[digitaldust]

well i dont have the cash for new tires getting ready for family emergency. what are the cost of chains also i thought chains were out lawed in Michigan.

can a guy drive on paved roads with snow or DEEP snow 6 in ch and over safely I know the rubber in the center of the tread is going to lift me out of the traction part of the tire

 

[greenjeepster]

The reason I mentioned the chain laws is that I am pretty sure that Michigan is a state that does not allow them. You could make up a set to have just for emergencies. they are pretty expensive to buy.

If you cannot afford tires your best bet would be to knock her down to singles and lower the air pressure. I am sure you are experienced in driving in snow, driving a deuce in snow is going to be a whole new experience.

My credentials are 18 years in Vermont, I year in Madawaska ME, year in Fairbanks Alaska and then several years in various other state That don't really know what snow is.