Deuce Registration in AZ?

[saddamsnightmare]

March 24th, 2010.

Gents:

Not saying it's gonna happen, but there is a very small chance that I may soon pick up a job in Needles, CA in the near future. Knowing all the inanities that California imposes on the deuce owners there.... I am giving some thought to residing, should I get the job in CA, in AZ nearby if that is possible. What are the likely problems of transferring a 1971 M35A2 deuce currently title in Texas as a 13,500# tare, 23,500 LB gross pickup truck, also a 1963 Mercedes Benz S404.114 Unimog (Gas) ex Swiss Army, currently titled as a 6100# tare,9100# gross pickup truck? I suspect a 636A Tan deuce is about the best you can do for air conditioning in that climate, as I hear that it is, if anything, hotter then Texas in the summer.

Curiousity is killing the cat, so I may look into other alternatives to in state registration, having learned a few tricks that way while working on the railroad....


Any reasonable information would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[ALFA2]

Well, there is no problem to re-title the existing classic or Antique MV's form any other state that has a title for them in AZ. Here if a Vehicle is 25 years or older it is qualified for Copper Historical Vehicle Plate, which exempts you from most local zoning ordinances as in residential storage, and driveway parking, in most cities. AZ Historic plate does not limit the use of the vehicle,or has restrictions on miles, and is exempt from emissions testing and renewals. You will need your title from Texas, and you will need to pass an Out of state Vin verification inspection, ether by AZ MVD office, any LEO authorized person, or more popular, an authorized 3rd party MVD Agent=$ 10.00 more, but much easier on you than the others usually. When you get you Vin Verification form signed and completed, you go to AZ MVD of a 3 party MVD Agent's office, give them your Texas Title, possibly plates, (if you still have them on you at that time, since it is optional), and you select the type of registration you want: Personal, Co., owned, Regular, Commercial, Historical or a combination of several of these. You can also for $ 25.00 more order a Custom Plate, including the Historical or Antique Custom Plate, with your numbers/letters as you need. If you chose the custom version, you will need a temp paper plate, since it will take several weeks to get your copper ones done, so you can legally drive in the mean time.
If you are registering as an individual owner, you will need to have a paper, showing you current proof of insurance, at he time of registration. If you do not have one to match each vehicle at this time, you can just do Title only, and later come back to the same office with your proof of insurance, to get the license plates and registrations. If you are registering as a Co., owned then no proof of insurance is required to be shown to the MVD/ 3rd party at the time of Plates/ registrations being issued, and you will not be subject to photo speeding tickets, interstate, and city. You should still have insurance, but you are not required to show them proof of it to them at that time, to get your plates and stickers.

Depending on the local office, your process should not take more than 1/2 hour for each vehicle, including the Vin Verification inspections, and the paperwork, to be done and out the door. For Hummers and Current issue MV's the rules are more strange, and are more subjective based on the personal interpretation of the station manager, than any law or regulation.. If you need help with this, when you get in to AZ let me know, I may be able to help in Phoenix, ( Title and Registration is good statewide anyway) if you pass through this way.

Hope it helps.

ALFA2

 

[saddamsnightmare]

March 24th, 2010.

Thanks ALFA 2! The luck is I might have a chance to come out your way, or I may end up in Utah , or Illinois, which will be another query. Both trucks are everyday runners here in Texas, and the state treats ex-military vehicles better then some other states do. Being a Park Ranger makes for odd reactions when folks see what you drive and it happens to be a former military truck with unit markings, but they have their uses as off road trucks and mine have been far more reliable then most civillian vehicles, even new ones, are. I knew to stay of of CA based on the CDL requirements based on axles not weights....

Thanks again for the information.

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan.

 

[CMS]

I've been wondering, if you were registered in arizona, or any other state for that matter, would you be able to drive your deuce through california without a CDL? It seems like california has a lot of issues with these larger trucks and I was just thinking if you are from out of state then perhaps your own state laws apply.

 

[Castle Bravo]

...AZ Historic plate ... is exempt from emissions testing and renewals...

If a vehicle is 1967 or newer, it must pass emissions testing in Maricopa County or Tucson. Other parts of the state have no emissions testing.

In Maricopa County and Tucson, if you have collector car insurance on a vehicle, with a limited mileage per year restriction and have another daily driver car that is insured, that vehicle is exempt from emissions.

Its not the historic plate that does it, its the collector car insurance.

---

Historic plates definitely have an advantage for really heavy stuff, as it makes you CDL exempt, as long as its not commercial. Here is a blurb about that -

So in an effort to once and for all discover the truth to whether or not any of us need a CDL, here is what I have discovered. -

The short answer is we don't need a CDL if we have historic plates and are not engaged in commerce.

The long answer -

Arizona Revised Statutes (ARS) 28-3101 describes driver's license classes in AZ, including A, B, C, D, G, and M. A, B, and C being CDL licenses, D and G being regular driver's licenses and M being a motorcyle license.

CDL classes are inclusive of lower ones. A "B" can do what C and B can. "A" can do everything. There are specific endorsements regarding air brakes, combinations (trailers), number of trailers, hazmat, tankers, etc.

In AZ, the only thing that pushes a vehicle into the CDL category is weight, which is over 26,000 lbs. Air brakes do not affect whether or a CDL is needed or not. As mentioned earlier, there is a CDL endorsement for air brakes, but that only applies to vehicles (or combination vehicles) over 26,000 lbs. This is a very common misunderstanding. This may be because other states have stipulations about air brakes necessitating a CDL. In AZ, it is just weight.

ARS 28-3102 says that recreational vehicles may be operated with a class D license (regular DL) and defines a recreational vehicle as a "motor vehicle or vehicle combination that is more than twenty-six thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating and that is designed and exclusively used for private pleasure, including vehicles commonly called motor homes, pickup trucks with campers, travel trailers, boat trailers and horse trailers used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes."

Some states define recreational vehicles as having toilets or beds, but AZ does not. A key component of the above statement is "used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes."

However, the most direct language comes again from ARS 28-3101 and states that a CDL is not required to operate a 26000+ lb vehicle if it has historic vehicle (25+ years old) license plates and is not used as a commercial vehicle. Historic plated vehicles do not pay weight and commercial registration fees.

On the Federal Level -

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR) do not apply to hobbyist (non commercial) activities. This means no US DOT number, no logbook, or driver medical card, no drug or alcohol testing.

There are a few good documents on here - AMVCC - Technical Info Licensing - Including one that gets your GVW set to zero.

 

[Desert Deuce]

Matt is correct. I have copper plates for all my trucks. It's the classic vehicle insurance that exempts the vehicle from emissions, not historical plates. My insurance limits me to 2500 miles a year which is fine with me. I have historical plates for my 1980 MB 300SD, I have to go through emissions every year as my insurance in not the classic vehicle type.

It's an easy process here, especially when you get to know the station manager. I go to the Avondale MVD, the manager there is well versed in SF97's.

 

[JAYHAWK 1962]

If you get the job and come through new mexico, give me a holler i am right off i -40 if you need anything. LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT PHONE #

 

[ALFA2]

All of the above mentioned is correct, as I automatically in my previous post figured that in a county closest to AZ CA border where it is practical to live on the AZ side, but drive into CA side for work or fun purposes, does not have any emissions requirements on the AZ side, for any historical vehicles registered in AZ at the town address there. Since Needles was mentioned, I just assumed the county there has no emissions requirement for even the newer vehicles, so the classic or historic ones are even more so exempt. I should have been more clear in the description, sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Hope it helps.

ALFA2

 

[LowTech]

I've been wondering, if you were registered in arizona, or any other state for that matter, would you be able to drive your deuce through california without a CDL? It seems like california has a lot of issues with these larger trucks and I was just thinking if you are from out of state then perhaps your own state laws apply.

I've been wondering the same thing

 

[saddamsnightmare]

April 28th, 2010.


I'm still waiting to hear what USF&WLS thinks as to my fitness for the purpose, being an ex NPS Park Ranger doesn't always seem to interest USF&WLS as much, as they are more oriented towards hunting & fishing then NPS is, but it would be in Visitor Services, which is pretty much the same. I did not want to have to address a CDL and the other issues in CA for a personal truck registered as a pickup, which is what the Unimog and deuce are set up as here, albeit a 10,000LB capacity pickup (M35A2). The input is most appreciated, but I might stay with regular registrations as my trucks average 4500-6500+ miles each per year (local) driving.


Thanks again and

 

[Castle Bravo]

In the six plus years since I posted this, I have become more educated about this and would like to revise some of my above incorrect statements -

...AZ Historic plate ... is exempt from emissions testing and renewals...

If a vehicle is 1967 or newer, it must pass emissions testing in Maricopa County or Tucson. Other parts of the state have no emissions testing.

In Maricopa County and Tucson, if you have collector car insurance on a vehicle, with a limited mileage per year restriction and have another daily driver car that is insured, that vehicle is exempt from emissions.

Its not the historic plate that does it, its the collector car insurance.

---

The part about the 1967 emissions date is true, but saying Maricopa County or Tucson is not - here are two maps of the two emissions areas in Arizona -

http://legacy.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/images/areaa.html

http://legacy.azdeq.gov/environ/air/vei/images/areab.html

Historic plates definitely have an advantage for really heavy stuff, as it makes you CDL exempt, as long as its not commercial. Here is a blurb about that -

So in an effort to once and for all discover the truth to whether or not any of us need a CDL, here is what I have discovered. -

The short answer is we don't need a CDL if we have historic plates and are not engaged in commerce.

The long answer -

Arizona Revised Statutes (ARS) 28-3101 describes driver's license classes in AZ, including A, B, C, D, G, and M. A, B, and C being CDL licenses, D and G being regular driver's licenses and M being a motorcyle license.

CDL classes are inclusive of lower ones. A "B" can do what C and B can. "A" can do everything. There are specific endorsements regarding air brakes, combinations (trailers), number of trailers, hazmat, tankers, etc.

Most of this is correct except that there are not any endorsements regarding air brakes in Arizona, or perhaps any other state, insofar as my research has taken me. Instead, there are CDL restrictions about air brakes. This is important because A.R.S. §28-3101(B) states that "A class A, B, C, D or G license is not valid for operating a vehicle that requires a class M license or a vehicle that requires a special endorsement unless the proper endorsement appears on the license." If air brakes were an endorsement, this would alter the way Arizona historic license plates affect air brake equipped military vehicles in terms of licensing.
The available endorsements are hazmat, Double/triple, tank vehicle, passenger, and school bus.

In AZ, the only thing that pushes a vehicle into the CDL category is weight, which is over 26,000 lbs. Air brakes do not affect whether or a CDL is needed or not. As mentioned earlier, there is a CDL endorsement for air brakes, but that only applies to vehicles (or combination vehicles) over 26,000 lbs. This is a very common misunderstanding. This may be because other states have stipulations about air brakes necessitating a CDL. In AZ, it is just weight.

ARS 28-3102 says that recreational vehicles may be operated with a class D license (regular DL) and defines a recreational vehicle as a "motor vehicle or vehicle combination that is more than twenty-six thousand pounds gross vehicle weight rating and that is designed and exclusively used for private pleasure, including vehicles commonly called motor homes, pickup trucks with campers, travel trailers, boat trailers and horse trailers used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes."

Some states define recreational vehicles as having toilets or beds, but AZ does not. A key component of the above statement is "used exclusively to transport personal possessions or persons for noncommercial purposes."

However, the most direct language comes again from ARS 28-3101 and states that a CDL is not required to operate a 26000+ lb vehicle if it has historic vehicle (25+ years old) license plates and is not used as a commercial vehicle. Historic plated vehicles do not pay weight and commercial registration fees.

On the Federal Level -

The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSR) do not apply to hobbyist (non commercial) activities. This means no US DOT number, no logbook, or driver medical card, no drug or alcohol testing.

There are a few good documents on here - AMVCC - Technical Info Licensing - Including one that gets your GVW set to zero.

That particular AMVCC webpage no longer exists, so I have attached one of the documents I was referencing here -



An additional document, perhaps more relevant, given the age of the first one, is attached as a .pdf file to this post. It is a AZ MVD memo document "to establish guidelines for the assessment of commercial registration and weight fees including exemption requirements." The important parts are highlighted and state that vehicles that are not maintained and operated in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise, have a historic license plate, and are more than 25 years old are exempt from commercial and weight fees. This document is MVD's own memo and could be useful in convincing them of their own rules.