Deuce Starter Solenoid

[cjcottrill]

Has anyone ever disassembled the solenoid to see what makes it tick - or in my case not tick? Mine worked fine up till the last cold spell. I went out one snowy day with the grandson, pushed the button and nothing happened. I attributed it to a cold relay, waited for a warm spell then tried again - still nothing. The batteries are good, grounds intact, power from the relay, but the starter wont engage. I can jump around the solenoid and the starter will spin but the bendix will not engage. When I jump the solenoid nothing happens. I had to take the truck in today for an inspection to get permanent license plates and pull started it just fine. Total run time was about two hours, didn't seem to bump anything loose so I guess I need to try to take it apart to see what the problem is or locate a replacement. We have more snow predicted for the weekend and the grandson grows impatient so I guess I've stalled long enough.

 

[shannondeese]

Try a ford starter solenoid. Get one that sits on the firewall. I've used them in the past to bypass bad solenoids for a temp repair. I think napa might carry one for 24volt.

 

[cjcottrill]

I think you're talking about the starter relay, I'm talking about the solenoid that is mounted to the starter.

 

[doghead]

Do a search, Cranetruck has posted pics of the starter solenoid and it's internals. Also discussed possible repairs.

 

[combat32]

I have some spare used starters, shipping would be kinda high.They are a joy to change out

 

[saddamsnightmare]

February 4th, 2010.

cjcotrill:

Both White Owl Parts and Memphis Equipment can provide you with a new starter solenoid, but you will have to either pull the starter motor or get a multijointed individual to get the necessary data off of the starter motor. Starter motors are interchangeable on the deuce, starter solenoids do not interchange between starter motors. I would stick with the Army designed solenoids, which generally only fail due to age and mechanical wear, instead of substituting some other solenoid, which will make repairs harder for the next guy in the future, because it won't be one from the TM or parts books for the truck....

A new solenoid should run about $65 or so, a completely new starter and solenoid will go for between $325.00 and $375.00 plus shipping. You may want to pull the starter and take it to a reputable truck electrical repair shop, get the starter number and order a new solenoid from the guys up above, then have the starter shop rebuild the starter. It might not be a new starter, but it will likely run less, if not..... order the new starter and solenoid and solve the problem for the next twenty years or so.

My truck is doing exactly the same thing, and it is due to wear on the two contacts in the solenoid, one motors the starter, the other throws the Bendix drive in gear, if either of the two do not make contact.....you're stuck with pull starting. Usually when the temperature hits the low to mid 30's, then the unit works. This indicates sufficient wear on the contacts in the solenoid to not make closure at low temperatures, whereas a healthy deuce starter should work every time the button's pushed. The starter button can also get wear on it and fail under these conditions due to REMF (reverse or Back EMF) arcs burning the contact when you release the button. The way to cure that is with a N1400 (?) diode interposed across the starter button's leads to divert the REMF from the button contacts.

Give it a shot, Your truck should run better after the fact. Mine is awaiting these same repairs, but she has to be on hold untill I get some work.....


Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[The Janiter]

An old quick fix for solenoids when we didn't have any money back in the dark ages, was to take them apart and turn the brass bolts around since the base of the bolt was square - and run it till they burnt out again - maybe another 5 years.

If the internals of the solenoid is the same this will work fine or replace the brass bolts yourself - this is what a shop does if another one is not available.

 

[cjcottrill]

I took the solenoid off, the brass bolts inside look perfect. The coil seems fried. It doesn't read short, just doesn't pull in. I went in to my local starter/alternator repair shop- he said 175 for a new solenoid shell. I've never been able to work with him anyway. I e-mailed Memphis, no response yet, white-owl and eastern didn't show the correct one on the web site. Several sites sell take-off starters but I haven't seen anyone with new solenoids. Anyone know of other sources? I've checked several threads and most refer to the three I've already checked with. Do you get a better response if you call these places directly?

 

[The Janiter]

Try another shop - we have one here that is the - go to - shop we use for our motorcycle stuff and he is not only reasonable but inventive.

It is possible that some one at another shop will be more than willing to help - ask some of the truck salvage yard folks - I have found parts through them that others won't or don't have. I hate to use the phrase but "NETWORKING" helps with OD Iron.

If it doesn't read short then is is open - burnt wire - look to see if the ends are att. or for a hot spot - if you find one you could maybe jump it.

 

[cjcottrill]

I'm showing some resistance through the coil, any idea what it should ohm out to?

 

[Jakob]

I ran into this same problem with mine. I didn't start it for a while when I replaced the clutch parts and rear main seal. When I went to test start it, I got nothing. I'm waiting for it to warm up before working on it again.

 

[cjcottrill]

Tried to look a little deeper, the coil wires are attached to the studs at the bottom. The coil does not pull out. Look at the picture, just below the label is a small spot weld, they are evenly spaced all around the case. The coil retainer is pressed in then welded in place. So far the only replacement I've found is with Southern Automotive the original supplier. I've heard they only sell in quantity lots but have not contacted them. If I can't find one, looks like I may be better off to change the starter & solenoid-they seem to be more readily available that way.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

February 13th,2010.

cjcottrill:

Now that you've had the starter out, call Mr. Kivett at White Owl Parts, he will have the solenoid you are looking for as NOS, it may not be on the computer, but they do have them. They also have completely new starters available, no core need be returned. It seems that the solenoids take a great deal of punishment over their lives and when they get erratic, that's about it for the old unit. Lately I have been getting 4 out of 4 starts on my truck with the weather in the mid 20*F range and snow (both unusual here in Texas), so I don't know if the gremlin took a vacation to Cabo San Lucas or what......! Normally she would never start under these conditions due to the solenoid...., I know I'll have to replace either solenoid or more likely solenoid and starter, then I'll rebuild the old unit as a spare.
Like I said, call either of the Kivetts at their office, they should be in today untill noon at least (if they didn't get snowed in....), and they will be able to locate your parts asap.

Cheers and good luck,

Kyle F. McGrogan

N.B. Marty Charnes is the man to talk to at Memphis Equipment.

 

[cjcottrill]

Finally made a contact, been trying Memphis Equipment, White Owl Parts, and Eastern Surplus. Memphis Equipment responded and had a solenoid in stock, and will be shipping today. Should be here in 2-3 days. Thanks for sending me in the right direction.

 

[Fullpower]

Prestolite Solenoid # 77452
or Accurate # 7-452
Look in yellow pages, heading " Auto Electric Rebuilder"
There is likely an old guy within 40 miles of you that does nothing else but rebuild/repair starters and alternators.

 

[cjcottrill]

James came through at Memphis Equipment. A little pricey, I think, but arrived in two days. Installed and running again. Thanks to all for the advice.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

February 18th , 2010.

cjcottrill:

Glad to hear you got the part and have the truck up and running. If you could be so kind, let us know how she does in the next cold snap, as we don't get them very often down here. Mine started 5 out of 6 days when the weather was below freezing in the AM, but day 5 the Gremlin came back to check and the truck wouldn't start until it got to between 32 and 36*F.. Darn that gremlin! I just finished putting the alcohol evaporator on the AB compressor this afternoon (60*F), likely I won't need it now for the rest of the year. I guess when I put the cab heater on is when we'll have 90*F days..... Murphy's Lawyers are in there somewhere, and Murphy was the family optimist.

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[cjcottrill]

saddamsnightmare

It was right around 30 degrees here this evening when I got the solenoid back on. It fired off with no problem. I did flash the manifold heater a time or two while cranking it over. It had about a foot of snow on it, everything has been wet and cool here for several days. The temp was low to mid 30's during the warmest part of the afternoon. I live in a hilly area where the sun disappears a little early so it's always a little cooler here than in the city. It was after 6 this evening before I got a chance to work on it. Only took 20-30 minutes but had to use a flashlight to see the back connection. I appreciate your guidance with my problem and hope to be able to offer the same type of assistance someday.

Charlie Cottrill