dual front axles on Deuce

[jimm1009]

Has anyone performed or attempted to perform a 2nd front axle installation on a Deuce for offroad-only applications?
It seems possible to install and drive the 2nd axle jsut as the rears are installed and driven.
Pictures would be nice too if possible.
It seems like it could be a real mud puddle proof truck if it had big tires, lockers, and a 2nd front axle.
I know that there are oil pan issues right up front but the original engine
may not be strong enough either.

jimm1009

PS: NO I won't be doing this to mine as it is much too nice for that!

 

[davidkroberts]

ive thought about doing something similar with a HEMET cab in the front..... no idea if it would work.

 

[snakeater]

i think we had dicussed this at length before (on the augusta, ga. trip) . The concensus that we had was to add the axle in front of the existing axle and lengthen the frame. Use hydraulics for steering both axles and slave them together. i think it would work, but it would be a **** of a thing. Two steers and two drives on a chassis that short, wow. You would have to have a parking lot to turn it around. It would look like something from mad max for sure. Aw ****..........I'm in. Snakeater

 

[Crackerjax]

I have seen dual tires on the front but not dual axles... heck why not make the rear 2 axles stear axles as well and run hyrdo stear?? then you could turn on a dime! monster truck style

 

[11Echo]

Been done.

 

[snakeater]

holy crap that thing is awesome, looks beat up like paris hiltons snooch, but awesome. Have no idea what I would do with it, but it would be fun to go to the grocery store in. Snakeater

 

[Crackerjax]

good gravy....thats a monster......

 

[mudguppy]

you'd have to mechanically link the two front steering arms - you can't depend on hydraulics to keep the same angle, even with divider valves. i'm thinking a drag link running parrallel to the frame from each steering axle's steering arm. you could then modify the steering arm on the forward axle (lengthen) to maintain the correct ackerman angle, otherwise you've have a lot of tire scrub while turning, even offroad.

but, after they've been linked you could drive [steer] them with hydraulics: the simplest design would be rams on each axle in parrallel circuits. both systems would apply force in the same directions but the inter-axle steering linkage will keep the axles steering the same.

 

[wreckerman893]

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

I remember years ago (as a young soldier in the 1970's army) I sketched out something like that and showed it to our Motor Sgt.
Obviously thinking I had too much time on my hands he allowed me to wash every deuce in the Motor Pool.
Years later when the HEMMT came out I thought I'd been robbed.
Doing this to a five ton would be more practical due to power steering (as I stated in the last thread concerning this idea).

 

[Varyag]

The different angles you would need for the front and real axle would be a **** of a thing to calculate and link up. What would be fun, even though I think bobbing is a horrid thing to do, would be to put a steerable rear axel on a 4x4, kind of like a rock buggy. Might be easier to accomplish as well.

 

[mudguppy]

The different angles you would need for the front and real axle would be a **** of a thing to calculate and link up. What would be fun, even though I think bobbing is a horrid thing to do, would be to put a steerable rear axel on a 4x4, kind of like a rock buggy. Might be easier to accomplish as well.

the angle is actually quite easy to figure. you can do it with string or with math.

for a two steer axle system, it's easiest to just change the ratio of steering that each axle contributes, based on wheelbase. if the forward axle is 100% of the wheelbase and the intermediate front is, say 75% of the wheelbase, then your steering linkage needs to only turn the intermediate front axle 75% that the forward axle turns.

effectively, you can lengthen the intermediate front axle steering arm by 25% - thus, the lateral movement of the drag link will effectively turn the intermediate rear axle at a slower rate than the front, keeping them in complimentary arcs in relation to the wheelbase.

 

[The Janiter]

Go have a look at some of the small cranes that are around - also if you need one for parts there are 2 in the GL site comming up at San Antonio, most of the newer set ups are all hydraulic no direct links. That log truck is over the top for drive lines

 

[Varyag]

Is that a m125. Looks like a 10 ton front.

 

[IMA944T]

With two frt. steering axles you would have to take into consideration that the rear frt. axle would have to turn tighter that the frt. frt. axle due to the difference in turning raduis between the to axles. Even a little difference in turn radius make huge difference. Watch some of the bigger cranes sometimes when they turn. Not all the tires are turn at the same angle when fully turned.

 

[Blood_of_Tyrants]

The addition would be quite simple. I thing that if you took a rear suspension, replace the solid axles with steering axles and then linked the two with an air assist drag link. It would work. As for the different steering radius, that wouldn't be too hard. Change the angle of the steering arms and shorten the tie rods. Your turning radius would still suck.

 

[IMA944T]

Ok how about a central pneumatic cylinder mounted on a large lazy susan bearing. Lift truck up and get out and just spin the truck around. Turning radius now becomes about 22 feet.

 

[rchalmers3]

I'm a vote for another steering axle ahead of the existing axle (which could be moved rearwards), linked mechanically and with both steering axles assisted via power rams.

Definitely need a cab forward swap, to solve the fender/tire coverage issues.

What about rear steer then?

Come to think of it, this idea may be better on top of the M35A3, since the A3 has a P/S system that can be enhanced.

Wait, isn't there something like this already being made?

rick

 

[tm america]

i think if you mounted a rear supension at the front of the frame you probaby woulbnt even have to lengthen the frame you could probably go back with the rear front axle a couple of inches if you needed .but you would have to make some sort of panhard bar set up to keep the axles centered since they are allowed to move several inches side to side iwith the stock rear suspension.i would really be interested in seeing this done it would really fix one of the big problems with a deuce offroad .since they are so unbalanced -really heavy in the front which makes the front dig itself down to china.when the rear is left floating

 

[jimm1009]

Has anyone mounted a front axle (or two) on the rear spring set up either with it mounted up front or off the truck just to see if it would fit?
jimm1009

 

[Ridgerunner]

A 5-ton's long front fenders always looked goofy big to me. Like they were going to put two front steer axles under them. But at the last minute right before production they chainge their minds, but kept the long fenders anyways.

(taking an uncalled for, jab at the 5-ton guys)