Engine swaps

[jdmcm]

Anyone out there done an engine swap on a M211 or 135? Maybe small or big block chev? How bout small diesels..3208? Wondering if there is any swap where I could retain the original trans? Any adapters available?

Thanks

 

[OPCOM]

I seen one 454 at buddy's with the M35 transmission adapter etc on it. He said it was good to go, a guy took it out of a deuce and put the diesel in. Not sure if that would fit an M211 or 135

 

[mo-mudder]

To the best of my knowledge, all Chevy/GM engines have the same bolt pattern on the bellhousing, so virtually any GM engine would bolt up to the Hydramatic. Getting the torque convertor set up or getting the flexplate to bolt to the non-302 engine may be another story...

 

[JasonS]

The early chevy/ gmc block/bellhousing bolt pattern is different than the SBC/BBC/ late model six. However, I do remember reading about someone who mated a 454 to the original hydramatic.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Just drop in a caddy 500 block with the th400 behind it!

 

[jdmcm]

GM engines

My brother in law is a machinist so I could probably come up with an adapter to bolt the flex plate up, I really wouldn't consider it if I had to lose the original transmission. Someone had one on e-bay a while back with a 454 4 speed combo, but losing the shift tower just looks wrong. I have three of these suckers two M207's with the shop van bodies and one M211 with the troop bed. I am only fooling with one of them, the motor is so tired it can barely climb a hill let alone maintain any type of highway speed.

If the stock motor is rebuilt will it be drivable/usable. I would just like to go for a drive without a lineup of 20 cars behind me honking and giving me the middle finger salute. I realize the trucks are geared low but they should go 50-60mph...right?

Would the BBC eat the transmission alive....it seems from other posts they can be the weak link. I read here that someone hauled 6000lbs up a mountain to a friends house...this motor must have been in good shape..

 

[jasonjc]

RE: GM engines

more like 50mph. I wounder how much hp the old hydramatic can take??Theres alot of truck there for a poor little 302.

 

[jdmcm]

RE: GM engines

Yeah...I worry about the transmission to, I just wish I could climb a decent grade without bogging down to 10-15mph...and that might be generous

 

[11ACR-LT]

The flywheel is the torus(torque convertor)front cover on the trucks, threr is no flex plate,thats why the fromt and rear flywheel housings are ser# to the engine.With a fresh 302 you probably won't get any better than 10-15mph on grades with any appreciable weight in the back(mine slows to about 15mph on long grades with my MB in the back) it'll do better empty. and you might not get any better performance after the extensive work of re-powering to a V-8(the 302 is governed to 3250 rpm,what would you want aV-8 at?)Remember these trucks were not designed/intended for highway use, rebuild your 302 and let people pass you and if you get the single finger salute, just smile wave. Just my 2 cents

 

[Superdave]

My 135 has a fresh motor in it and it will do 50-55 on the highway just fine and even on a slight uphill grade.

Dave

 

[CGarbee]

One thing that I have been kicking around since I like the body style on these trucks is to swap in a diesel. I can pick up a complete used schoolbus in my area for around $3000-$4000 with a Cummins ISB5.9 backed by an Allison automatic. I figure that the engine/trans would be a fairly easy swap, and then one could cart the rest of the bus off to the scrapyard and recoup some cash (perhaps sell some other parts off on Ebay firs as well).
Considering the torque curve of the ISB5.9, especially when compared to the stock engine), I think that you would be ok re low end grunt while still having a nice cruiser.

Of course, since I really like to shift gears, I've also been thinking about bolting up a Roadranger.

Other busses in my area have International DT466E's in them.

 

[jimk]

more like 50mph. I wounder how much hp the old hydramatic can take??Theres alot of truck there for a poor little 302.

The TH400 was rated at 800 lb-ft.

After 87' GM used a diff number sysyem. The first number is the # of gears, the L is for longitudal, the second pair numbers are the torque rating( in lb-ft), the E is for electric(connected/controlled by computer), the HD is heavy duty(truck,del.van...).

The TH400 became the 3L80.Early 90's it became the 4L80E,later the 4L85E.

HMMWV used the TH400 (now ?) .The civy Hummer H1 originally had the 3L80s, later the 4L80E.

The first 700R4's (4spd w/lockup) were rated at 600lb-ft.They didn't handle the SB torque well. They got better after a redesign , later they became the 4L60, then the 4L60E. My 100K TH400's having some probs w/gear shifts at peak output(~700lb-ft) even with a stronger pump relief valve spring that increase clamping forces(torque capacity).High mileage/hard use has reduce capacity.

One of the best GM trans (as of mid 90's) was the 4L88E was (is?) a 4spd, rated at 880lb-ft ( the highest rating), The Gas BB's used it but a limited/ non electric version was put in some diesel p/u's. It had a two speed torque converter w/lock up. It's a big boy-long and ~350lbs.
There were also a few switch pitch BPO'c in the mid 60's.

My pal Mark took and DIY welded the front half of a Chevy bellhousing to the back half of a Ford's. That 72' F250 got a SB Chevy -and- turning the Ford 4spd trans. 10Y ago he hooked a car trl and drove 3000miles(NY-Nv).It's still going strong.

So don't ever let it be said 'it can't be done'.JimK

 

[jdmcm]

I dont want race car, maybe rebuiding the stock engine is the way to go...I like the original looks and sounds it makes...how bout just hoppin up the six with a better carb, maybe a header...there must be some performance junk out there for this stovebolt? Does anyone sell a complete rebuild kit for the 302? Or do we have to hunt around for parts...I worry that the lack of power is probably a combo of the tranny and low gearing as well as the lackluster engine.

 

[butch atkins]

302 POWER

hey group mine was the story of pulling the 6000 lbs up the mountain used low gear,also puller a stuck tractor trailer with 34000 lbs ,landing gear was hung ,my m211 spun the tires on the pavement until the landing gear broke off,and could pull truch forward,another trick i use is to keep the distributor bolts semi tight,when i need to run the highway,i raise the hood and turn distributor clockwise until i get just a little spark knock,opening the throttle rapidly,truck cruises a littlt betterv on higway speeds ,when i have to pull a load i turn distributor a little counter clockwise,not so much idlev dies off,but when pulling load,motor doesnt spark knock under accceleration,and has way more power,motor had about 20000 miles on it ,when i pulled stuck truck,also pulled case 450 rubber tired loaderv out of a pond wher guy ran it off of dam into 12 feet of water,this truck pulles better than the reo water tanker i had,will also run 60mph on level ground,PROPER VALVE ADJUSTMENT IS CRITICAL TO OBTAINING THESE KIND OF RESULTS FROM THIS MOTOR,DONT OVERLOOK THIS NEXT TIME YOU TUNE YOUR TRUCK,AND ALWAYS KEEP THROTTLE LINKAGE AND TRANNY LINKAGES ADJUSTED,

 

[rdixiemiller]

RE: 302 POWER

With any of these old engines valve lash is critical. I always run to the tight side of the specs, it has the effect of giving a tad more lift and duration. Years ago I read a test in some magazine (Hotrod maybe?) on what HP loss was incurred by loosening up the valve adjustment from minimum to maximum clearance. You might also want to make sure your distributor advance is working properly, as well as the carburetor. If you run a tach, you can disconnect the governor, sometimes you have some acceleration lag with a governed carburetor.

 

[PawPah]

So, with a proper tune, adjusted valves, adjusted timing, what is the best fuel mileage that can be obtained with the M135?

 

[1992TWINZ]

i have to throw my two cents in. when i was younger and all the big money muscle cars were a dime a dozen it would be no concern to cut one up for a radio or spoiler or somthing else. but now with those vehicles worth so much money you wouldnt dare hack up a console to put a supertuner in. my point is these trucks were designed for one purpose and there is very few around .ten fiften years from now there will b less. with so many m35 available is seems only right to hot rod these instead. if you had a pld ford model t would you pull her apart becaus eit only did 20mph and drop in a 350 i hope not . i hate to see a good vehicle torn apart for those reasons . but if you do i can always use parts fo mine .