Fuel Jelling Problems / Questions

[SasquatchSanta]

Well, It finally happened --- I've been lucky but the other day I had a go-arond with fuel jelling problems. Luckily I was close to home and was able to limp home.

I had the tank spiked pretty heavily with Power Service and since I hadn't had any trouble in previously colder weather I thought I was safe --- obviously not. When it happened it was around 12 below but it had been 26 below the night before.

I've been running straight Nr 2 diesel with "lots" of Power Service but now I'm thinking, even with the power service I need to start running straight Nr 1???

Has anyone got any insight about running straight Nr 1? --- or perhaps just stay with Nr 2
and add 5% gas? I don't like Nr 1 because it doesn't have the power. I don't like walking either. I was really surprised because I "thought" with using Power Service that I could get by with running straight Nr 2.

A half a gallon of Diesel 9-11 seemed to clear it up BUT I'm a little concerned about the fuel filters. I was once told that when a filter jells the wax stays in the folds of the filter and restricts flow making it easier for them to be more susceptible to future problems. Do I need to change the filters? Any filter gurus out there?

Also --- given that warm fuel recirculates back into the tank I'm thinking it might be wise to let the truck idle (1,200 RPM) for a while to take some of the chill out of the tank before starting out?

Any thoughts?

Thks

PS:
Winter is draging on! This is the"Moon Of Cabin Stinks". Next month, when the snow finally starts melting, will be "The Moon Of Emerging Dog Tu#ds"

 

[garp]

Usually once a filter has plugged due to gelled fuel its a pretty fair bet it will continue to caue grief. Change em out or if your in a pinch, dump em out and fill em with straight powerserv or the like, this will melt the wax out. Another way to help is any filter that is exposed to the wind when a vehicle is in motion should be insulated. An old welding glove for bigger filters or a foam can cooler jammed over a smaller one helps hold some heat generated by return fuel.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

just dump in a few gallons of kerosene. all the fuel you buy should be "winterized" in your neck of the woods. (meaning its No.1 or mixed.)

 

[snoplay]

I've been running #1 all winter (you've got to up here) no problems 1 qrt marvel myst oil every other tank just because, and all is good!!! changing the filters after aditives and jelling won't hurt

 

[Jake0147]

I had the tank spiked pretty heavily with Power Service and since I hadn't had any trouble in previously colder weather I thought I was safe --- obviously not. When it happened it was around 12 below but it had been 26 below the night before.

Pretty well spiked with which one? Not the 911 I hope. Most people misuse that. Just a touch too much and it'll freeze up on it's own accord... Actually, any of them will cause problems if they're overconcentrated, just that the 911 will stop you dead in your tracks if you overdo it, the supplement will only leave white smoke and no power...

Assuming you used the fuel supplement (white bottle, red lid), in the correct proportion for preventative treatment, then it shouldn't be jelling at that temperature no matter what the fuel was blended for originally... but it's getting awful close. Close enough that it wouldn't be a terrible surprise to stop up a fuel filter with a bit of precipitated waxes. If that was the case, and 911 got you on your way very easily, I have a suspicion - You also said it was 26 below the other day? Is this normal? If that is unusual, or maybe better said "unexpected" by eight to ten degrees, if the fuel got separated from the cold then, even if you didn't drive, it seems to "weaken" the fuel, it makes the rest of the tank a little more prone to precipitating.

The first thing you'll want to do is change the primary element. Usually the precipitate is pretty coarse (at least in fuel filter terms), and even a very coarse primary filter catches it. Secondary filters tend to be in a place that's a degree or two warmer, so they never see it. Even after "thawing" the element never has the right feel or texture, so while I can't say exaxtly what damage it did, I know it isn't right. Secondary filters seem not to get "spoiled" until the fuel truely gells, and I don't believe you're in the danger zone for that issue. (Unless you had actual diesel fuel flavored Jello in the fuel tank).

Then, watch the concentration of the addatives carefully. Too much is as bad as too little. Treat exactly what fuel you put in. For reference, to be good to 20 below with no hiccups, we use one small bottle to 100 gallons of diesel fuel (they allow for up to twice that in extreme conditions), and so long as this is adhered to perfectly, they do not gel, freeze, or otherwise stop up due to temperature. Now the cowboys (drivers) at work never forget to do this, but when the girl at the counter forgets to put the supplement on the fuel slip, and I have to chase after one of them, half of the primary filter gets filled with the 911, the remainder of the (small) bottle gets dropped into the tank (no more than one small bottle per 50 gallons), two minutes of sitting, two minutes of idling and they're good to go.

The person before me had a different philosiphy, the more addative the better... If he didn't know if a truck was treated he'd just throw in an extra bottle "to be sure", and another extra bottle in every truck when the temperatures were dropping, without regard to prior treatment or tank level. When I chased after trucks under his watch, they'd start freezing at anywhere from ten to twenty degrees above (when the fuel is blended for an expected ten below...) and they did not start until they were warmed AND had new filters.

So, it's not science but there's my research... And kind of extreme since I doubt many people pour quite that much shmutz into a fuel tank... Burn this tank right to the end, and keep track of what you're adding very carefully. Use the addatives sparingly instead of "spiking pretty heavily" and it'll probably serve you much better as well.

 

[FormerNewMVGuy]

RE: Re: Fuel Jelling Problems / Questions

I've given up on "power service"!! I just run 60% no1 diesel and 40% kerosene! No more gel!

 

[saddamsnightmare]

RE: Re: Fuel Jelling Problems / Questions

March 9th, 2008.

DOES THE ARCTIC KIT FOR THE M35's PROVIDE ANYTHING TO ASSIST IN HEATING THE FUEL TANKS???
I know you guys up there in Alaska face conditions that we down in the lower 48 rarely see, except for the upper tier freezer box states, and diesel can be very temperamental under the wrong conditions. There was a good article in Trains magazine about the Alaska RR SD-70's a few months back, and apparently -35*F raises hell with them even with the modifications made to them at the factory to handle the cold. It would almost pay to come up with an insulated tap line off the cooling system to heat the battery box and the fuel tank, given the conditions you have up there. Keep us informed of how the best minds solve your dilemma, so we can all learn something potentially useful.

Keep safe and warm,

Sincerely,

Kyle F. McGrogan

!971 KAiser Jeep M35A2 Wo/W "Saddam's Nightmare" Desert Storm and Vietnam Veteran Deuce
1963 Swiss Army Cargo Mercedes Benz Unimog S404.114.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

RE: Re: Fuel Jelling Problems / Questions

Thanks for the insight everybody.

I have been using the white power service and when I said the tank was liberally spiked I was saying it had at least the minimum. I just bought a measuring cup to carry with so I can more accurately measure what goes in the tank. I've been carrying a gallon of 9-11 for emergencies. I used almost half a gallon on an almost full tank --- say 40+ gallons. It seemed to do the trick but with what I've just learned in this thread I'm going to change the primary filter before the truck moves again. When I added the 9-11 the fuel in the tank dod not look to like it was jelled.

The truck has been sitting for most of the winter. The night before I had the jell problem the temp had been down to -26 and although it was only 12 below when the problem happened, six hours earlier it had been -26. We've also had some 35 below+ nights

Jake0147 wrote:

if the fuel got separated from the cold then, even if you didn't drive, it seems to "weaken" the fuel, it makes the rest of the tank a little more prone to precipitating.

I take it you are saying to condition the fuel for a specific temperature and, if I'm reading this correctly, if fuel is conditioned for say "zero" temperature and the temperature falls to say -30 then the fuel can somehow seperate (???)

No more than most of us drive our deuces conditioning a tank of fuel for a specific temperature could be close to impossible. Up here in Frostbite Falls It can be 20-above on a Monday and 40-below on a tuesday. Is there any way around this?

I'm starting to think I may have another fuel system related problem. A few weeks ago my in-tank fuel pump went out. I installed one of OD Iron's above tank in-line pumps. Given the truck was outside in the cold when I installed the in-line pump I didn't pull the old in-tank pump to see what caused it to start blowing fuses. The new in-line pump is pulling through the old in-tank pump that "may" be restricted the therefore causing some starvation problems. When I first installed the new pump I opened the valve on the bottom of the primary filter and seemed to be betting good flow. Go figure.

In looking bacl, I think I was having jelling problems when I first installed the new pump. Upon installation the engine fluttered a lot --- something I attributed to air in the lines from the new pump installation --- something that would clear up shortly which it seemed to do after it had idled for a while. I also noticed when I shut it down after running at a fast idle for about 30 minutes that I had to give it a shot of ether to get it started again. I'm still having starting problems --- still have to use ether to restart even after the engine is warmed up. The only thing I can figure out is that either there is a restriction in the in-tank pump OR the filters are waxed up causing a restriction of both. Something is causing the starting problem and I don't think it is the new pump.

We're going to put the truck in the shop next week for a new primary filter and an inspection of the old pump.

As a final thought, one would think these trucks, with their warm fuel returns would develop a lot of moisture in the fuel tanks

Once again --- thanks all for the insight.

 

[2027Deuce]

RE: Re: Fuel Jelling Problems / Questions

I usually run 25-30% number 1 and the balance number 2 diesel when its really cold (below zero). I use the fuel additive all winter cause for me its cheaper than lost time to deal with a gelled up truck. Also if you have a shed it really helps, it doesn't need to be heated just being inside helps.

 

[m139h2otruck]

While we don't get the long term low temps you guys get, it does go below zero here enough so you have to watch the fuel. Our off-road equipment was burning straight #2 for the lase 3 years with no problems, except for we had to watch for water. Every time we had a problem, it was water/ice not "wax". If we started in the late fall using dry gas rated for fuel, we never had an issue. Now with the new low sulfur fuel, it does act a little different, but the water/ice has still been the issue not "wax". Fuel oil seems to hold a lot of water in suspension, unlike gas so you have to treat it more often with the dry gas.

 

[NorthPatrol]

I know that this thread is over 2 weeks old but I had to post my thoughts.

I run #2 in all of my diesel vehicles all winter long with either Power Service or Howes fuel additive. Up here it is not unusal to see weeks of -35 to -45 with out the windchill. I even run #2 in my old International tractor. Only once did my wifes Excursion 7.3 Power Stroke gel on her while she was driving and it was a blistery -60 with the windchill. After a little checking we found out that it was from fuel she had got at a station we do not normaly use.

Every station has a little different quality of fuel. Even if they get their fuel from the same supplier other factors take over. The size of their tanks, how much fuel they sell, the temps and humidity when the tanks were filled, the levels they keep their tanks at, etc. My point is if you have a gelling problem all of the sudden look at where you got your fuel as well as other causes.

 

[johnnypayphone]

I'm exploring the use of Vaseline in a multifuel. From what I can tell, vaseline is a mix of mineral oil and beeswax. I know MO works great. I usually stay in warmer climes. From this thread, I can see that wax can build up on the filters. My question is, will the wax cause any foul-ups elsewhere in the fuel line? Or do you think cutting it with a solvent/thinner/gas will liquify it enough? One of the other users here has already told me that it is a liquid at 245 degrees.

 

[frodobaggins]

I don't think what you have has any beeswax in it. You probably have just regular petroleum jelly.

 

[poof]

"I'm exploring the use of Vaseline... "

Step AWAY From The Vaseline..

 

[frodobaggins]

"I'm exploring the use of Vaseline... "

Step AWAY From The Vaseline..

Well he said he has 8000 gallons, I'd probably try to find a use for it too !

 

[johnnypayphone]

Haw haw, yes, the use of lube as fuel leads to endless jokes. This is surplus special-effects explosion fuel. There's a guy in NYC who wants to get rid of much, much more of this stuff- 8k gal was the LEFTOVER from his road show TRAVELING STASH. He adds paraffin to make it burn the way he wants, and after it cools once, it separates and is useless for his purposes. I figure you scrape off the wax, and then either

1) Raise the whole fuel line to 245 degrees F

2) add chloroform, benzene, carbon disulfide, or oil of turpentine (three things PJ is soluble in)... something tells me I don't want to be the guy in the convertible behind the deuce burning benzene

3) Filter, somehow, the wax out, which I gather is going to be on my filters anyway

4) raise an army of bees?

Let's figure this out and I'll ship barrels of it around the country for the cost of shipping.

 

[Mark2X2]

This is a little late since it's August. We work in northern WI, not as cold as northern MN but we have our moments. In our woods equipment, we run straight #1 from deer hunting season in November until break up in March. We don't have any gelling problems. There is nothing more miserable than a jelled up machine. If you look at the cost difference between #1 & #2 (#1 is more money by 5-10 cents) and a the cost of additives, filters, down time, the frustration, cold hands, fuel on your cloths and overall bad day. #1 IS WORTH IT! If you have a full tank of #1 in the summer and our worried that its to thin, dump a couple ounces of ATF in the tank. I fill the fuel filters with ATF on the 653E when I change them. Gives the pump a good lube & cleans the injectors. We also dump a quart per 500 gallons in the fuel barrel.
Our semi is a Mack, it has fuel tank heaters. We use the winter blend fuel and have very little trouble with it.
Works for us.
Mark

 

[MCHoward]

get ready guys the new #2 Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel is only good to about +20. w/vendor additives (so it wont jell in they're pump) maybe down to 0. so you'll need to add your own additive or blend w/#1 heating oil. and be careful with what you put in (chloroform,benzene,turpentine) its not yet known if these will mix or float to the bottom. dont burnup your turbo. thank the EPA.

 

[MCHoward]

something else to think about THE IRS !!! the people that check for OFF ROAD FUEL ONLY or red dyed fuel dont care how or why its red. they want they're roadtax money. and it doesn't matter if its a volks DTI, your dodge cummings, big rig peterbuilt. or our old mv. their rules their court. you may also want to think twice befor you dump used motor oil in the fuel. the IRS lady here in the KC area thinks you're trying to hide something. and she's not smart enongh to tell your big green truck from mine. if she fines one she will start stoping all of us.

 

[cranetruck]

..........
Our semi is a Mack, it has fuel tank heaters. We use the winter blend fuel and have very little trouble with it.
Works for us.
Mark

Interesting, could you expand on this? Electric, I presume, like the Racor heated fuel filters...are the lines heated also?