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Fuel pump

Karl kostman

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Hello Folks just wanted to let you all know that the master Cylinder rebuild went great on my 404 and I actually got to drive it into town, oh did I mention is was directly into a 45 mph headwind, first time on the road and I could just barely hold 6th Gear, should have been in 5th! OK thats one this but here is the reason I am writing, When I got home from town and parked the Mog I had a fair amount of Fuel dripping out of the fuel pump, all the bolts etc. seemed tight and it was coming out of the end bolt on the end of the pump, well I ordered a rebuild kit and it will be here tomorrow, I read all the rebuild procedures and all seems relatively straight forward EXCEPT for measuring the pump suction and output pressure, I have not way to measure this, is this a critical step? And any other words of pure wisdom would sure be appreciated! Thanks very much for any suggestions.
Karl
 

Karl kostman

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Hey guys I have a question that somebody else has to have run into before and I needs some suggestions please. I rebuilt my fuel pump on my 68 404 and the rebuild went fine till I tried attaching the fuel pump to the piece that attaches to the block, it had the push rod in it that actuates the fuel pump. The problem I am having is the spacer between the pump and the piece that attaches to the block is now not thick enough, the pump actuation lever hits the back wall of the push rod piece, it seems like a thicker spacer would take care of the problem but if I just get a thinker spacer will this throw off the geometry between the pump actuation lever and the push rod that runs it? Is it normal to all of a sudden need a thicker spacer after a rebuild? Is a thicker spacer available? If I find a thicker spacer will there be more that I have to do to maintain the original geometry/pump stroke length between the push lever and the pump actuation lever? The pump is put together correctly, I am not understanding where and why this problem came up? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
KK
 

Karl kostman

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Thanks Goat I think my problem now is that I have been staring at it fiddling with it trying to figure it out and right now it could be carburetor in my hands and I would not know the difference. This is one of those times where I am just going to walk away for a day and come back and figure this out, then I am sure I will be very embarrassed because I figured out that I was holding it wrong or something really stupid! Thanks for your comments Goat, I will keep you posted!
KK
 

saddamsnightmare

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August 6th, 2013.Karl Kostman: I think that what blew your original mechanical pump is likely ethanol in your gasoline. If your rebuilt pump croaks in about a month of driving, you will pretty much know that's what it is. NONE of the MB pumps or rebuild kits for the MB mechanical pumps use anything other then Butyl rubber for the diaphragms and gaskets, and nobody makes the correct silicone replacement parts, so you will either get a lot of time in rebuilding your mechanical pump, or replacing it with an electric one with fuel pressure regulator and flow bypass. Seems like Mercedes Benz never heard of ethanol laced gasoline before, and all the Unimogs just hate the stuff as far as fuel system problems go. I ultimately went with a higher flow rate 24 VDC marine pump, and a pressure regulator and bypass made by Holley to send fuel back to the main tank through the breather gooseneck line. So far, it works, but the trucks never seem to be able to go as fast with the electric system on the road as with the mechanicals. Otherwise the 404 is a generally reliable truck once you replace all the age rotted rubber components that one generally meets with on a 50 year old truck. Good Luck!
 

Karl kostman

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Kyle thanks for the information on this and its pretty interesting to say the least since I am already having trouble with the fuel pump after the rebuild, I did not ever give anythought about Ethanol messing with the rubber pump components but there is certainly some credence to what your saying. If I may ask Kyle what did you settle on for a pump pressure to the carburator that worked, will that carb. handle 5 to 7 pounds of pump pressure or do I need to be less than that? Any further details you may be willing to share would sure be appreciated and your timing could not have been better on this response, Thanks very much for your insight Kyle.
Karl
 

saddamsnightmare

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August 7th, 2013.Dear Karl: The Unimog NDIX carburetor is not a device that tolerates pressure well, volume from the mechanical pump yes, but pressure, no. In the first iterations back in 2010-2011, I replaced 3 $300+ dollar pumps in 3 months, two of them new MB units.... Nobody had ever seen 3 pumps go that quick, then I raised the question of 10% ethanol in the gas....Your truck can't run on that...Well, that's all we have here in Illinois! The first 24 VDC pump and in line pressure regulator was from Expedition Imports (using Summit Racing Parts), with the pressure regulator set at 1.5 to 2.5 LBS guage. The truck would run, it just never could reach and hold 70 KPH like it did before, as it would outrun the standard pump supply. She would end up blowing one new pump and at least one pressure regulator a year, which I thought as odd that no one bypassed the excess fuel back to the tank (like we do on all diesel engines). Well, when the pump blew this last time in April, there was no pumps available as the suppliers had stopped carrying them, and when the pump had been put on, the pressure regulator failed. The mechanic replaced the regulator and the truck wouldn't start, and he wouldn't fix it.... So, I took the carb line off and proved no gas was getting through, so refund the money for the regulator & it's installation and I'll fix it. Done! I found a very old common sense (no computer) mechanic, that when I explained the issues, he merely said that I needed a new pressure regulator with by pass to the tank, which Holley Racing makes....Well, $65.00 later and some new plumbing, I have a 24 GPH marine pump (24VDC) and Holley Bypass pressure regulator (set for 3.0-4.0 PSI output) like they use on racing cars with electric fuel pumps on carbs.... Generally she runs much better, but she still will not cruise for long spans of time at 80 KPH, 60-65-70 is about it, and I suspect that too many people in the Unimog community do not realize that at 70-80 KPH these trucks are approximately at 90-95% open throttle, and they do use a lot of gas. Unlike most people on here, my Unimog has averaged 4,500 to 6,500 miles per year, a lot of them on the road, and probably the highest maintenance issues have been failure of hose clamps, as nobody today is willing to make the metal to metal couplings on the fuel lines that these trucks are designed with. The engines do move a little bit, and in off road work, the frame flexes a lot and an air leak anywhere will throw the truck off its stride. I love the S404.114, as long as you have common sense, or more importantly YOUR mechanic has common sense, they are wonderful trucks. Would I like a diesel U1300L, heck Yes! Can I afford one? Heck NO! But the Unimog S404.1114 with care will outwork and outlast the American modern pick up truck in off road work and hauling in almost every one of their iterations, yes, will it out run them, no! It is not a "Truck" but a very high speed tractor. I can probably dig around in my paperwork and hunt you the pump and bypass part numbers, JUST DON'T mount your pump on the cab floor like my guys did, the noise almost drowns out the engine (I should have been paying closer attention there)! Good Luck, and maybe one day MB or the Turkish folks that bought the S404 tooling, will wake up and make new rubber components out of the right grade of silicone rubber...all the other antique parts guys do!aua The knowledge's has been hard bought, I assure you! I have a little more experience here then the guys who only play with their Unimogs on weekends and haul them on trailers everywhere. If mine has to be hauled on a trailer much, it needs a new home, seriously!:razz:
 
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Karl kostman

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Kyle when I pull the fuel pump off will I be able to tell when I dissemble it that ethanol in the fuel is what is causing my problem, will the main diaphram show sighns of degredation because of this type fuel? When you switched over to an electric pump did you leave the old fuel pump in place or did you remove it and block off the hole in the block where the old pump attached to? If its not to much trouble Kyle if you could send me the model of the electric pump you used and the regulator that would sure help me out in this adventure also. Thanks much for your sharing of your knowledge on this subject, I have a feeling I would have been knocking my head against the wall for a while on this one Kyle! Thanks again.
Karl
 

saddamsnightmare

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August 9th, 2013. I will dig around and see if I can come up with the numbers on the pump and pressure regulator over the next couple of days (I'm off this Sunday, so I'll dig around after church for you). I took the mechanical pump off and just made a blocking plate and gasket to cover the original fuel pump mounting holes and drive pin hole in the block. I also changed the fuel filter to a replaceable cartridge type, as the original screen filter was letting too much debris get trough to the carb. What the ethanol will do is degrade the Butyl rubber, making it stiff and prone to shrinkage, even sometime eating it up. The carb mounting gasket will show the same action over time. The other thing that it does do is eat the original tank linings out over time and it will clear fifty years of crud out of all your fuel lines (and carry it all to the filter). Probably the best thing would be to take the tanks to a gas tank repair shop, have them clean the original lining materials out, and then recoat them with something not digestible by the ethanol. All the replacement original tanks (New at $150.00 each) all have the same orange coating to inhibit rust, and all are damageable by ethanol. The guys with the diesel Unimogs do have life better in this respect, but I still have great affection for the S404.114 Swiss as they generally took exceptional care of their trucks. So far, that's the report from my end of the battle front, MB would earn lots of bucks and gratitude coming up with the right repair gaskets for their trucks.... But then a new Unimog's only a quarter million dollar investment......
 

Karl kostman

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Fargo ND
Good Morning Kyle, I am back in town for a while now and getting ready to tackle the 404, were you ever able to come up with the model numbers of the components I am going to need to convert my 404 to an electric fuel pump, or could you point me in the direction that you went, I see no need to reinvent all this especially since you have already successfully done it Kyle, and please dont stress yourself getting this info, if its to much of a pain just let me know that an I will figure it out. Thanks much Kyle and any more info would sure be appreciated!
I am guessing that you should probably PM me this info if you dont mind also!
Karl
 
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