Getting the old girl started again

[drlogistics]

Hello fellow GMC owners. I need some guidance. My 211 is all put back together and ready to start. But it just wont turn over fast enough to start. The truck did start and run before I started working on it. I replaced all of the battery cables but that didn't change the cranking speed. My next fix will be the starter. But before I do that I just wanted to see if anyone had any other ideas. Thanks.

 

[NDT]

If you have two hot batteries the engine should crank over like crazy assuming the starter is good. Check for hot cable terminations after cranking before condemning the starter.

 

[topo]

On my truck I added a ground cable from the starter to the frame .

 

[197thhhc]

Did you do anything to th engine. If the timing is off it can make the engine crank slow. Or if you have one battery thats weak. Or possibly a poor ground path. Topo has a good idea with the extra ground.

 

[Stan Leschert]

These thing don't crank fast in the best of times. If batteries and connections are good, how is the spark? Blue?

What happens if you shoot WD40 into the intake?

Need some more details.

I have fought through a couple of problems with the one we have, and there are much more experienced members than myself around here.

Help us help you. Tell us what is and isn't happening.

 

[hendersond]

Make sure you are in series not parallel. 12volt vs 24volt. Slow crank vs fast...

Had a couple ying-yangs stump me on a m715 at the fire dept once.

Chwir.............wirrr.............Chwir.............wirrr.............Chwir.............What smells hot?

Chwirr-Wirr-Vrooommmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

 

[m1010plowboy]

I just went through the archive links to see if someone had a start up 'trouble shooting' list better then the TM's. Haven't found one yet. I only checked the posts that had clear "Thread Titles". If nothing else this link is full of entertainment over the last 8 or so years.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/archive/index.php/f-18.html

There are some very interesting threads in archive and if you click on the 'blue' highlighted link at the top of each thread you can see info and pics back to 04'......in the new 2012 format.

I now have a pile of 302's to troubleshoot this spring so I'll be paying close attention to how you solve this non-start issue. Wish I could offer something you haven't already tried.

Once you've gone through Fuel (proper psi), air and ignition (timing) it must be frustrating to not hear them fire. When you get it fired...and you will get it fired....... let us know what it was. Stay on it, you'll see that driving them is almost as much fun as working on them.

 

[m1010plowboy]

No Start G-749 troubleshooting Ignition and Fuel

Here are the ignition troubleshooting pages out of 9-8024.

It runs through a couple of tests for the primary and secondary ignition circuits.

Taking all 6 wires off and testing one at a time against the 'cylinder head' does not come with 'safety instructions' so if someone tries this, be careful and get a video. 24 volts can be nasty.



The Fuel troubleshooting sections refer to many other sections, paragraphs, figures and pages. If you think it may be fuel related we'd need to get more details on symptoms before pulling the TM's.

It'd be a nice Christmas present if you can get it running for us!

 

[drlogistics]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I should have given more details about what work I've already done. The truck had a cracked head when I got it. It would run just not very well. So I found another head which got a valve job along with hardened seats. I also rebuilt the air compressor. The distributor got a new cap and rotor and points and condenser. New spark plugs and wires as well. I also had to replace the water pump. I also rebuilt the carb. About the only thing I didn't take off the truck is the starter. To address the above suggestions: I made sure the starter is grounded to the frame. The batteries have been load tested and passed with flying colors. They are hooked up in series. I triple checked that as I am new to the 24volt system and it confused me at first. The in tank fuel pump has been replaced with an in line pump that I purchased from Alfa Haven. But im not that concerned about a fuel issue yet because the truck will just not turn over fast enough. The spark is blue through all six plugs. I pulled them from the head and watched them while a buddy cranked it over. I am going to get video of the truck turning over today and post it up here ASAP. Thanks again for the info guys.

 

[hendersond]

Don't you have the urge to wack it with a 2lb hammer? I'd pull the starter and look inside. Maybe a brush hanging up or cracked magnet???? Sorry for your frustrations.

 

[butch atkins]

Did you check the the end of the starter that goes into the engine for cracks ?the casting is kind of thin there,also the bushing that is in the end gets worn out,let's the armature flop around,and under load the starter had to struggle to turn over.I had to buy a used starter that didn't work,swap the housings out and fixed the problem.While the starter was apart I took the armature ,put it in a lathe and lightly cleaned up where the brushes had worn. I did this in 1992 so it took me a while to remember this.I still have the old housing .wife says I am a hoarder.Good luck on your project

 

[m1010plowboy]

Thanks for Hoarding Butch. We're going to need that stuff.

If it's not the starter (hoping for a quick starter fix) too much fuel could 'hydraulic' the cylinders and cause it to turn slow. Other damage can occur as well.

If the plugs are 'wet' after turn over...... ensure fuel pressure is regulated to 2 1/2 to 3 psi at 20gph.

If plugs are 'dry' after turn over then my dream last night was incorrect.

 

[drlogistics]

Hello all. I'm sorry its been so long since I last posted. But I'm sure you all know how life gets in the way of our great hobby. Great news! The truck is running again. It was the starter. I took it off and sent it to a shop to get rebuilt. Cost $130. Well worth it to me. She turns over great now. And, like I said, it runs!! I haven't taken it out on the roads yet. Still a few adjustments to make and a couple leaks to take care of. But it runs great and I've even moved it forward and backward a couple times in the warehouse. Thanks again for all the advice. I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions. Enjoy the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOT3RQZfcOE

 

[m1010plowboy]

That is such good news. My jaw hurts from smilin', just watching it run.

 

[Superdave]

I think you have to much initial timing as it does not sound smooth before it starts to run.

 

[drlogistics]

You were correct about timing. It has since been dialed in with a timing light. Also got the brakes bled and working. I just need to put the cab back together and get it outside to see if the trans functions properly. I will keep you guys updated.

 

[hendersond]

Nice running truck. Mine sound the exact same when I start them. I just assumed it was 60 year old starters... On to the timing light!
How the heck am I going to get the inductive pickup to work with those plug wires????
Thanks for the video.

 

[drlogistics]

Tip for inductive timing light. I saved an old plug wire and just "peeled" away the various layers of stuff. Worked great. If you don't have an old wire you can take a piece of regular wire (about 8-12 ga) and strip each end enough to get it to make contact with the distributor and spark plug. I haven't tried the second method personally but I've been assured that it works.

 

[drlogistics]

I wish I was better at keeping up with the latest news on my truck. I get so much good advice and information from you guys that I feel guilty for not sharing my experiences. Since the last time I posted I have moved the truck out of my old warehouse and drove it home. However, it would not shift past second gear. Luckily I was able to make the 7 mile journey on back roads. And I did it on a Sunday morning with my dad following me with his flashers on. To get max speed out of second gear I ran it home with the trans in "hilly". Max speed was about 25 mph. That old beast of an engine held up great. This was last February and it was about 20 degrees that day. Just another reminder that I needed to put glass in my windshield frames. I made it home with no issues and it lived in my driveway for the next few months while I worked on the transmission issue. I will continue my story later. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Mastertech]

I was Just reading your post and watching the video. good to see another one operating again. Have a question about the trans problem when you say it wont shift past 2nd, does it try to shift and slip, or not try to shift at all? Mine would shift then just slip 3rd gear. I never atempted any repairs on that trans just got a good used one because at that point I knew it would take a complete rebuild. hope yours is just a sticky valve maybe a service, clean screen and fresh fluid would take care of. I used HyTran tractor fluid in the replacment. good luck on the diagnostic and repair on the trans problem.