• Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!

  • Microsoft MSN, Live, Hotmail, Outlook email users may not be receiving emails. We are working to resolve this issue. Please add support@steelsoldiers.com to your trusted contacts.

Grounding MX-6707 on 12V Vehicle

droppointalpha

New member
4
0
0
Location
Santa Anna, TX
Good day,

I am performing a GRC-160 install in a Jeep. Electrical system is 12VDC and I have installed a 12VDC-24VDC converter to supply power to the MT-1029 (also supplying power to the VIC-1 installation). I am connecting an AS-1729 to complete the system.

The AS-1729 is shown as grounded from the MX-6707 to the mounting base. I understand the AS-1729 is a vertical dipole so is this ground purely for electrical safety of internal components? Or have I missed something regarding its participation in transforming the body as an aid to radiation of signal?

If it is electrical safety, then I should have no problems grounding to frame according to what I have read on mixed 12VDC and 24VDC systems (such as what I have read with some RV setups).
 

papakb

Well-known member
2,285
1,185
113
Location
San Jose, Ca
Your fine with the 6707 grounded to the vehicle as long as the MT-1029 is tied to the same point electrically. The PRC-25/77s are really 12 volt radios deriving their power from the AM-2060 and it's only (other than audio amplification) function is to reduce the input 24v from a military vehicle to 12v needed by the radio. I've seen installations where the user only input 12v to the 2060 and it worked fine without the need for a voltage doubler.
 

droppointalpha

New member
4
0
0
Location
Santa Anna, TX
I'm replacing the rear seat with rack built to hold the MT-1029/AM-2060/PRC-77 and bolted into the body where the rear seat's original lock-downs so the MT-1029 should (through the bolts) be electrically grounded through the rack to the body.
 

papakb

Well-known member
2,285
1,185
113
Location
San Jose, Ca
When you bolt everything into place make sure you use star washers between the metal chassis to insure good electrical bonding. You can put a dab of silicon sealer on them to inhibit rust from forming, the tabs on the washers will bite through any paint and make sure things are well connected.
 

NormB

Well-known member
1,220
72
48
Location
Cloverly,MD
It’s not just electrical. There’s a reason the antenna matching circuits (coils) inside the base are connected to the body with a braided strap. The braid carries RF better than it can conduct through those star washers, although everything is electrically bonded together so the body can act as ground plane to the whip emitter on some bands.

If you have a five point grounding harness in place, everything will be at the same electrical potential and avoid ground loops (weird hums, stray harmonics).
 

droppointalpha

New member
4
0
0
Location
Santa Anna, TX
Mounting will be a bracket/rack fixed behind spare tire, with the mounting bracket to be projected toward the passenger side (with due observation to the rear door swing to ensure mount doe not impinge on body/taillight/etc and keeps the antenna roughly in line with tie down point).

So electrical bonding to mount assembly should be fine; it will be ensuring good, constant electrical conduction between mounting rack and the spare tire lugs/frame. There is probably where I will use star-type washers, if I can get them in a tire lug size.

Might also just go ahead and run a good size wire from one of those lugs under the washer to the rear bumper to ensure a reliable connection. Something around 12 gauge and just braze the lug to the bumper. Then I can paint over it.

There’s a reason the antenna matching circuits (coils) inside the base are connected to the body with a braided strap. The braid carries RF better than it can conduct through those star washers, although everything is electrically bonded together so the body can act as ground plane to the whip emitter on some bands.
So there are some matching circuits where the coax sheath also runs to ground instead of remaining only in the lower antenna element? Or is this matching circuit ground only to aid in reducing harmful interference from the body and enhance its role as a sort of ground reflector similar to radials used in horizontal dipoles and NVIS antennas (where they are not electrically connected to sheath but just serve as RF mirrors).
 

NormB

Well-known member
1,220
72
48
Location
Cloverly,MD
Mounting will be a bracket/rack fixed behind spare tire, with the mounting bracket to be projected toward the passenger side (with due observation to the rear door swing to ensure mount doe not impinge on body/taillight/etc and keeps the antenna roughly in line with tie down point).
So electrical bonding to mount assembly should be fine; it will be ensuring good, constant electrical conduction between mounting rack and the spare tire lugs/frame. There is probably where I will use star-type washers, if I can get them in a tire lug size.
Might also just go ahead and run a good size wire from one of those lugs under the washer to the rear bumper to ensure a reliable connection. Something around 12 gauge and just braze the lug to the bumper. Then I can paint over it.

So there are some matching circuits where the coax sheath also runs to ground instead of remaining only in the lower antenna element? Or is this matching circuit ground only to aid in reducing harmful interference from the body and enhance its role as a sort of ground reflector similar to radials used in horizontal dipoles and NVIS antennas (where they are not electrically connected to sheath but just serve as RF mirrors).

The whip antennas are generally dipoles (although how they do it - how it's wired, mechanically arranged - I don't know) and broadcast signals pretty effectively for their design and dimensions.

On the base of the antenna is a switching circuit to select the combination of matching circuit for the frequency range desired. A common misperception among ham radio guys is the idea that an "Antenna Tuner" actually allows 100% of the transmitted power from the radio to go out the antenna. What the "tuner" does is add capacitance or reactance to the inductive components to "fool" the radio amplifier into putting out its selected power and not "see" the mismatch. This power gets dissipated through the "tuner" (look at the specs on any "tuner" and you'll see power handling data and warnings about heat), not the antenna.

So where does that power go in an isolated truck?

In a perfect antenna, dipole (half positive, half negative), nearly 100 percent of the signal will be emitted - minus some loss due to resistance, reactance, in the cable, hardware, etc.

In any antenna, some current or voltage is going to be produced as "stray" emissions which need to be "choked" (by use of a BALUN - voltage or current as appropriate for the use) and the stray current bled off to ground so as not to travel around the circuitry from radio to mike, to knob, to Pretective Control Box or driver/operator leading to shocks, shorts, circuit damage or words inappropriate for (and banned from) this forum.

Since the actual truck is INSULATED from earth ground, the truck metal parts themselves become ground, or lowest electrical potential for all bonded circuits. It bleeds off, but not in EM bands likely to interfere with radio use, but mostly as voltage/current/static.

Some of the multiband antennas include 2 Meter bands, and these use the truck as a ground plane, like you might see with a classic 11 M citizen's band home tower antenna, one upright, and three or four more radials horizontally as "reflectors" although it's more complicated than than. Those antennas, like vertical multiband ham antennas radiate roughly 360 degrees the "dipole" being comprised of the upright (positive) and the radial(s) as ground - the more the more efficient and frequently the radials are of different lengths to maximize propagation within the band to lower the VSWR (another topic entirely), make the antenna system more efficient.

Oh, and the cable sheath IS connected to the radials, and to ground. For electrical AND RF ground. Braid carries RF better than solid wire.

I'm not an IEEE engineer, just a ham radio guy (Extra) and it's been a few years, but this is essentially correct.

Poke around on the web for information on antenna theory, or here:

http://www.arrl.org/how-antennas-work

or here:

https://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Antennas/Theory/
 
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website like our supporting vendors. Their ads help keep Steel Soldiers going. Please consider disabling your ad blockers for the site. Thanks!

I've Disabled AdBlock
No Thanks