I want a shorter deuce

[Amerioca]

I've been cruising this forum for a while to learn about deuces in preparation for buying my first. I've got a set up in my head and want to get some feedback on the feasibility of the mod, having never been under a deuce and only looked at the underside in photos. I'm the type of person that wants to plan everything before I start a project. I also do mind undertaking a big project, but I dont want to spend a year working on truck.

I will keep the three axels, but I want to shorten the truck, maybe 3ft or more. I'm thinking that I will be limited by the position of the transfer case and a larger drive shaft angle, due to a shorter shaft, on the middle axle. I seem to remember seeing these, but can't really find any threads or other info. What's your recommendation?

Option 1:Taking a M35 and moving the axles forward. May need to relocate the fuel tank? air tanks? spare tire? etc. I see this as being very similar to a bob job. What limits how far forward I could move the axles? What might prevent, or make it extremely aggravating, to move the axles forward? I imagine this will be the easiest truck to find, allow me to get the wheelbase exactly as I want it, but require a fair bit of labor.

Option 2: Find a short wheel base truck, like an M275, M45, M58, M59 to start with and find, shorten, and fit a spare M35 bed. The wheel base is about a ft shorter already and I could lop approximately 3ft off the bed. I anticipate it taking a fair bit of time to source a short wheel base truck and find a spare bed. What modifications would be required to make a M35 bed mate up with these short frames?

Option 3: Buy a bobbed truck and reinstall the third axle. Haven't put much thought into this one because I imagine it would depend on how it was bobbed. I also not too excited about inheriting issues from work done by someone else.

 

[bigugh20]

Like this?

 

[Amerioca]

Like this?

Yes yes yes! Don't throw that out there without giving me details! Is that your truck? Did it come from a shop or from blood sweat and tears?

 

[bigugh20]

Yes yes yes! Don't throw that out there without giving me details! Is that your truck? Did it come from a shop or from blood sweat and tears?

No Idea, I found them trolling around on the internet. If you can dream it up it has probably been attempted by someone. To do this with a 2.5 ton tractor or dump would most likely be met with flying, flaming dung balls and pitch forks.

 

[Amerioca]

No Idea, I found them trolling around on the internet. If you can dream it up it has probably been attempted by someone. To do this with a 2.5 ton tractor or dump would most likely be met with flying, flaming dung balls and pitch forks.

I mean, I could save one from seizing up and rusting away. Plus I wouldn't need the specific tractor or dump parts. Would it help if I pitched it as sacrificing a truck I bought to help someone else restore theirs?

 

[Recovry4x4]

Invest in a tire company unless you have extensive fabricating skills. The ackerman angle isn't adjustable and it set up for 154" wheelbase. Front tire wear on the 142" wheelbase trucks is very evident and amplified. I would imagine going down to 130" wheelbase would be exponentially worse. Not suggesting that you don't build your dream truck, just pointing out something that few think of.

 

[skinnyR1]

I test drove this one. Opted for the longer bed though, as I wanted the 12 footer. This was $13k asking, which was steep. It came from someone in cali that regularly restores army vehicles.

 

[Amerioca]

Invest in a tire company unless you have extensive fabricating skills. The ackerman angle isn't adjustable and it set up for 154" wheelbase. Front tire wear on the 142" wheelbase trucks is very evident and amplified. I would imagine going down to 130" wheelbase would be exponentially worse. Not suggesting that you don't build your dream truck, just pointing out something that few think of.

These are the comments I'm looking for. I could handle the 3D modelling and CNC of new steering arms, but that's more than i really want to do. However, it's an option for the future.

 

[rustystud]

Invest in a tire company unless you have extensive fabricating skills. The ackerman angle isn't adjustable and it set up for 154" wheelbase. Front tire wear on the 142" wheelbase trucks is very evident and amplified. I would imagine going down to 130" wheelbase would be exponentially worse. Not suggesting that you don't build your dream truck, just pointing out something that few think of.

If you want something that is potentially life threatening then by all means go ahead and shorten the wheel base. You will soon learn the meaning of "squirrelly" . If you never plan on driving this thing on the road fine. Of course just like "Recovry4X4" said, invest in a tire company as you will need it !
Also you will need to go with double cardan u-joints, as the driveline angle will be to great when you take it off road.

 

[cbear]

I would think something like this should be singled, maybe on the skinny side.

 

[M-1028]

How is tire wear or drivability any worse than a bobbed deuce? I cut 3' off my truck, wheelbase is 130" and it drives great. I guess jeeps and early broncos are designed to kill.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I think it only applies if you shorten it and keep the tandems. Ever notice how if you are turning a deuce and just stop and get out before straightening out, the two rear axles aren't in line? That is what causes sideways drag and accelerated tire wear I would think.

 

[M-1028]

I think it only applies if you shorten it and keep the tandems. Ever notice how if you are turning a deuce and just stop and get out before straightening out, the two rear axles aren't in line? That is what causes sideways drag and accelerated tire wear I would think.

I get that, just don't think it would cause extreme wear. Ackerman only comes into play when the wheels are turned. Toe and caster have a much greater effect on tire wear than Ackerman.

 

[Jeepsinker]

I don't even remember what Ackerman is so I'm certainly not going to argue with you.

 

[M-1028]

I was also under the impression you don't always want perfect Ackermann, it can actually effect handling negatively.

 

[M-1028]

I don't even remember what Ackerman is so I'm certainly not going to argue with you.

Short version, it's where the inner tire while turning is at more of an angle to help prevent tire scrub. If you steer most vehicles inner tire will almost always steer more.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Gotcha. I remember now!

 

[rustystud]

How is tire wear or drivability any worse than a bobbed deuce? I cut 3' off my truck, wheelbase is 130" and it drives great. I guess jeeps and early broncos are designed to kill.

Early broncos and jeeps have only 2 axles plus there tire diameter is nowhere near a deuces . If you look at a deuce turning you will see the center axle actually being dragged over. In the dirt this will not cause much problems but on pavement it can be a real concern. Just look at the tire wear patterns you will see what I mean.
As far as the snarky comments like "designed to kill" you will get more help and information with a better attitude. Of course if you already know everything why are you bothering us here ?
As far as the "Ackerman" angle goes, that only applies to the front steering wheels, unless you have a rear steer vehicle.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Ackerman angle combined with the push of locked tandem axles does affect front tire wear. I've owned a few short wheel base deuces and I can assure you, there is an obvious difference . Going even shorter simply amplifies this, it's simple geometry. Comparing this to a bobbed 130" deuce is like comparing apples to oranges, it's simply not the same.

 

[M-1028]

Early broncos and jeeps have only 2 axles plus there tire diameter is nowhere near a deuces . If you look at a deuce turning you will see the center axle actually being dragged over. In the dirt this will not cause much problems but on pavement it can be a real concern. Just look at the tire wear patterns you will see what I mean.
As far as the snarky comments like "designed to kill" you will get more help and information with a better attitude. Of course if you already know everything why are you bothering us here ?
As far as the "Ackerman" angle goes, that only applies to the front steering wheels, unless you have a rear steer vehicle.

You said shortening a Duece is potentially life threatening, that's ridiculous.

If the majority of people on this site can be trusted to drive old, out dated, extremely heavy trucks, why is modifying one for there needs any worse if it's done correctly?

I just can't see how it would be less safe or drive worse than a bobbed Duece. I completely agree there will be more tire wear. I think most Duece tires suffer from dry rot before they wear out, seems like a non issue to me.