Legalities of WMO in Mass.

[fabiodriven]

So I'm planning on running alot of WMO in my deuce, and I live in eastern Mass. There are a lot of DOT's around here. I'm not sure how my truck is going to be registered just yet, but it looks like it's going to have Maine commercial plates on it. So if I get pulled over and they decide to "dip" the tank, will I get in trouble for running waste oil? I'm guessing I will, but I'm sure it's not an issue they come across every day.

 

[BEASTMASTER]

i think they would be stumped because it's a multi fuel and not just a diesel. if i run into the dot cop in town i'll have to ask him? i don't think he'll be able to answer me though.what does you're boss think ?

 

[saquishmike]

I am not sure but the D.O.T does not check its the I.R.S or state tax guy . I have been stopped in the crane by mass state police D.O.T and they never check fuel. And if the find motor oil in fuel act like the motor is going and the return fuel is contaminated.

 

[fabiodriven]

OK, thanks alot guys. You both have some good idea there. If you hear anything let me know Beastmaster. I may just ask the next DOT I see as well. Thanks!

 

[jag7720]

I don't live in Mass. but I don't think they have any way of dealing with it... just like they have now way of dealing with electric cars or hybrid (gas/electric).

So you have a tank of food product. What is the difference between that and a battery?

Seems you would only get in trouble if the WVO has red dye in it. That is what they are looking for... off-road diesel or heating fuel.

 

[dabtl]

Every state wants to tax motor fuel. WMO or WVO powered vehicles are subject to the same penalties as running red diesel. Whether or not you get caught is the variable.

 

[jag7720]

Every state wants to tax motor fuel. WMO or WVO powered vehicles are subject to the same penalties as running red diesel. Whether or not you get caught is the variable.

Most have a 400 gallon exemption... that being said, how do they deal with electricity or hydrogen supplementation?

 

[tamangel]

If you make/collect/somehow obtain a type of fuel that isn't taxed at the pump, and since taxes are only due on the 15th of April each year, just keep a running total on how much 'fuel' you use on road and then have some sort of proof that you paid the taxes on your income tax forms..

May 100 gallons
August 100 Gallons
December 200 gallons

by April 15th, total taxable fuel produced/used was 400 gallons

State tax on , on-road fuel, lets say is 20 cents a gallon.

400 gallons X 20 cents = $80.00.. Somewhere on your tax form submit that $80 and have proof to show whoever is asking..

What requirement actually exists that you have to pay road/fuel taxes (in this scenario) other than once a year? (edit: I guess its quarterly per the below forum discussion)You are paying the required fee's, just not at the commercial pump..

just an observation..

Mike

another forum thread:
Do you pay road tax on your homemade biodiesel? - TDIClub Forums

 

[jag7720]

Would you pay the Diesel rate or the gasoline rate? My truck was made in both fuel types and essentially the same truck same with most cars.

 

[tamangel]

Hmmmmm, sounds like you would have to keep records on all types of fuels used and pay accordingly..

I can see your records now, 10 different binders with 10 fuel types each, percentages, chemical differences, ha...

What a nightmare for the cop or accountant (and you too..)

mike

 

[jag7720]

LOL... which is why it will never happen.

 

[dabtl]

What a nightmare for the cop or accountant (and you too..)

mike

Anyone who has been through one of the fuel audits can tell you it is no nightmare for the government. They all have 'rules' governing your answers. No records? No problem. Here is the estimate based on your answers, pay at the window. Been there, done it and it was no fun for my client, even if he was a multi-millionaire in a Mercedes.

 

[ralbelt]

How about adding another tank in the bed, keep diesel in the main tank and wmo in the second and plumb it in with a selector valve.

 

[fabiodriven]

So basically if I keep a record of how much WMO I'm running, I can pay taxes on it at the end of the year? What do I show the cop who dipped my tank, my running tally? I really can't see them going for that. Don't get me wrong, I like the suggestion. But I would think I'd need something a little more official.

 

[tamangel]

Seems I read something somewhere that allows people in some states to become their own fuel supplier, which requires one to obtain some sort of license with a total gallon (personal use) limit per year. may, however also require insurance for 'spills' or some other liability.. Unknown specifics but maybe it can be pursued with that info...Might want to do some research around your own states Departments/Boards/Commissions of Equalization, Energy, Consumer Affairs, EPA or whatever they are called..

Found this also:
Alternative Fuels and Advanced Vehicles Data Center: State and Federal Incentives and Laws

Fuel Taxes by State:
Gasoline tax information - Massachusetts Gas Prices

Mike

I want to live in Theory, everything works there.

 

[Sumoman]

The argument is one for the courts but here is how I look at it. WMO is used freely and without taxes by oil change companies to heat their stores in the winter.. so the only difference is you are using it for power generation. If they can tax garbage being used for power I would be surprised. I can run a gasser on wood.. how can they tax something I can pick off the side of the road.

It is like KY, there is coal everywhere, can pick it up off the road.. how can you tax that? No WMO, if it is being taxed, is something that is happening because we let it and someone simply has to put out here on SS that they are going to court, maybe we can start a lawyer fund to help you battle it. We have a great excuse, we are mostly running MULTI-fuel, they were built to run this crap.. this is not some red neck mod this is solid tech (40 years old but whos counting)

I for one will have a good supply (from the city I work for) and will keep it on hand stored for personal use (55 gallon drums a plenty), but since I have a historic vehicle tag I am bypassing many of the issues you face running a commercial tag. Of course my fuels will be for parades, rallys and the coming Zombie invasion and we all know zombies do not care if the truck running them over is running WMO, WVO, Wood gas, or fresh diesel

 

[Sumoman]

Fabricate a 55 gallon drum set up in back using them as the fuel tanks or use a couple of regular fuel tanks from used deuces, and keep a fresh tank of diesel on hand in the regular tank. A simple bypass valve and your good to go.

I did this under the house for our gray water, which can be bypassed through a sand filter into a 100 year old cistern for use on the garden. Inspector did not know any different.. Muh hahahahahaha (its the small battles I win that make me happy)

 

[kipman]

I think DABTL has a better Idea than the rest of us concerning the legalities, since that is his field.

 

[fabiodriven]

Fabricate a 55 gallon drum set up in back using them as the fuel tanks or use a couple of regular fuel tanks from used deuces, and keep a fresh tank of diesel on hand in the regular tank. A simple bypass valve and your good to go. quote]

What about the in-tank electric fuel pump?

 

[scooter01922]

Actually i would be more worried about the EPA crawling up my ass over the extra 55 gal fuel tank. Techincally you would be transporting more than 50 gal of hazardous material. No haz mat lic = big ticket Not that it s gonna stop me from bringing more waste fuel along for long roadtrips, just don't think i would fab something to stay there all the time.