Locker location on 1083

[ramdough]

I have heard that some people install Detroit Soft-lockers on only the intermediate axle or both rears.

Is there a logic to choosing option 1 or 2?

Thanks


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[coachgeo]

You may be confusing information. ....

EDIT.... read on....... it was myself that was confused on how the Power Divider box functions.

 

[ramdough]

Coachgeo,

I appreciate your help.

I do understand the setup of the existing power diverter box. What I am inquiring about is that if I was considering to add Detroit Lockers to the rear axles, should I only install one (and where), or consider installing two?

I drive a 4x4 daily with a selectable rear locker. I am not familiar with pros and cons of a Detroit locker, or the options and considerations of installing them on a 6x6. I would appreciate any feedback anyone would like to provide.

Thanks


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[coachgeo]

Coachgeo,

I appreciate your help.

I do understand the setup of the existing power diverter box. What I am inquiring about is that if I was considering to add Detroit Lockers to the rear axles, should I only install one (and where), or consider installing two?

I drive a 4x4 daily with a selectable rear locker. I am not familiar with pros and cons of a Detroit locker, or the options and considerations of installing them on a 6x6. I would appreciate any feedback anyone would like to provide.

Thanks


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EDITED for clarity.
The locker available is NOT selectable unfortunately. Curious to what others think and their reasoning. Am certainly no pro on this.

 

[ramdough]

Are you then recommending zero lockers or the intermediate only?


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[ramdough]

Sorry for being dense right now. I do appreciate the help.

Thanks


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[coachgeo]

Sorry for being dense right now. I do appreciate the help.

Thanks


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Im no Pro at all.... am learning along with you.

PS- Other discussions in various places on the net seem to say on AWD rigs to never put an Auto locker in the steer axle AND rear axle of an AWD rig rather it is 4x4 or 6x6. Some say never in steer axle at all..... except for trail only rigs.

 

[ramdough]

I was only looking at the rear axles, but was not sure what configuration to pick.


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[scottmandu]

A Detroit style locker will not fully lock unless there is torque being applied to the housing. With little torque application going around a corner one wheel is disengaged or ratchets to compensate for the speed difference.

This is also why it is not recommended to power through a turn on a solid surface with a Detroit style locker, powering through a corner can lock the axle and increase the turning radius significantly, as well as pushing the vehicle straight instead of turning.

This is the primary reason why limited slips and torque biasing diffs are used in on-road motorsports, and Detroits are primarily used offroad.

Personally I would install the locker on both axles, but for one I would install the detroit in the rear most axle, as torque is only being applied to the center axle if you select mode on the transmission control panel. Also installing it in the rear axles is much easier as you don't have to muscle with a 350 pound chunk, and the angle of the rear most axle really helps with install.

An automatic locker isn't recommended in the front for the reason mentioned above. For front axles in vehicles used on the street it's recommended to use a manual locker, clutch type diff or a torque biasing diff.

 

[coachgeo]

This is good reading... learn something new everyday

 

[coachgeo]

retracted to not confuse

 

[scottmandu]

Without the center diff locked, de-powering the rear most axle will cease all torque transfer to the wheels.

 

[ramdough]

That sounds like your auto locker would act more like a selectable one then...... you would just drag it around until you select mode.


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[steve6x6x6]

You will get different opinions from everyone on this. I have DT. lockers in all 3 of my axles. My truck is a blue 1979 Ford built 35 years ago . The power is dived 50/50 between the 2 axles in the rear on a M1083. You can have a locker in ether axle, what good is it? The power is going to run to that axle that has no traction. For a locker to even work in a rear axle you need to flip the air switch to lock up the power divider.

 

[tennmogger]

Steve, Scottmandu, thanks for adding experienced comments to this thread.

Bob

 

[ramdough]

You will get different opinions from everyone on this. I have DT. lockers in all 3 of my axles for 20 years with no issues. The power is dived 50/50 between the 2 axles in the rear on a M1083. You can have a locker in ether axle, what good is it? The power is going to run to that axle that has no traction. For a locker to even work in a rear axle you need to flip the air switch to lock up the power divider.

So basically, if mode is not set, then having lockers will not do much of anything. But having either, or both rear axles with a locker will be active once mode is set. Is that correct?

Would your truck behave if they were still open diffs?

Have you driven in ice or snow with the lockers?

Thanks


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[steve6x6x6]

OK, stock setup on #2 axle and #3 axle is one wheel drive each, left or right wheel. You lift one tire each axle and the truck will not move, with lockers, yes. A locker in both axles would be all wheel drive? As long as equal footing on all 4 tires yes. With this setup you can place a jack under #3 axle and lift it up, and you will have nothing, the truck will not move ( as long as the steer axle is not invalided). At this point you need to flip the switch on the power divider to lock it up.

 

[coachgeo]

Glad we are haveing this conversation. It is certainly adding more detail to this PDB .

...The power is dived 50/50 between the 2 axles in the rear on a M1083. You can have a locker in ether axle, what good is it? The power is going to run to that axle that has no traction. For a locker to even work in a rear axle you need to flip the air switch to lock up the power divider.

Just to clarify....... Just when thought had it all figured out.........

Your saying the rear two have essentially a differential between them mounted inside the Power Divider and it works like a typical axle diff that moves power to the one slipping/turning the most?

Embarrassed to say though the Power Divider only was an off set gear/transmission box that allowed for one of two settings.. Both axles powered or front of the pair only leaving rear most to be just a tag axle 99% of the time. This making rear one just a Tag axle to spread weight load most the time or when PDB locked to get more traction to help get a heavy load going or in situations where the extra axle helps with other traction needs (off road).

that seems to say that in A1P2's with 4x4 that use the #2/Intermediate axle with the PDB installed as their only rear axle must then run it in locked mode all the time and let the output to rear most driveshaft just spin? There is cap over the output so this must be a cover over the spinning rear shaft. Wonder if one could power something from that hmmm.

 

[steve6x6x6]

The drive shaft feeds the differential in the top. In this pic it is all in the top, the feed comes in from the right and out the left side. And the air port for lockup is there on the left. I bench tested this unit right there where it sets in those 2 pic's.

 

[coachgeo]

.... I have DT. lockers in all 3 of my axles for 20 years with no issues. ...r.

In those 20yrs your referring to where they in an AWD rig or rig with typical 2wd/4wd selection? In those 20yrs have you lived in snow country? If so what was that like?


PS- removed/edited some of my previous discussion so not to misinform anyone. Very educational thread. Much thanx to those that participated. Learned a lot and glad others reading too get chance from this discussion to reach a better conceptual understanding of how the PDB works and about using lockers in rear of FMTV's AWD 6x6 setup .