Looking for a new or known good Niehoff LBCD or way to remove

[johnhatem]

Hey Folks,

I have a M1083A1, thanks to this forum got thru all the testing of charging system and it's mostly working... I'm down to that last piece of the system.

I have looked high and low for a new LBCD and have come up empty handed.

Does anyone have one they would be willing to part with?

Or is there a safe way / workaround to remove it from the system?

 

[Ronmar]

Well there are some variables to consider. First off what batteries are you running?

The LBCD is a dual polarity protection device first. Designed to make battery connection/work a little more soldier proof. If you are confident in your ability to disconnect and reconnect batteries properly, it is mostly unnecessary. only running 2 batteries makes this process a lot simpler also. On a dual voltage system, it also protects from the 24v side reversing current flow to the 12v side if you should loose your ground path back to the battery. one and two circuit polarity protection devices are available commercially, so this function could be replaced by a single circuit device on the 12v circuit(100A battery isolator).

Second, the LBCD senses alt RPM and output. If not appropriate, it sends a ground signal to the remote disconnect module which disconnects the batteries to save the alt. If still not appropriate it sends a ground to the dash charging system trouble light.

This is where your battery config comes into play. I think they added the monitor and disconnect feature when they finally realized how bad the battery and alternator mismatch was. I have never seen this type system in any vehicle I have ever worked on, so if your alt and battery are properly matched, this feature becomes unnecessary Like every other vehicle on the road…

the last feature, a large capacitor bank, is I believe directly linked to the second feature. When you disconnect the batteries from an alternator at full load, that energy has to go somewhere untill the regulator gets the output under control to match the now greatly reduced electrical load. I believe the caps serve this purpose.

 

[Suprman]

I have new and used ones

 

[johnhatem]

Well there are some variables to consider. First off what batteries are you running?

The LBCD is a dual polarity protection device first. Designed to make battery connection/work a little more soldier proof. If you are confident in your ability to disconnect and reconnect batteries properly, it is mostly unnecessary. only running 2 batteries makes this process a lot simpler also. On a dual voltage system, it also protects from the 24v side reversing current flow to the 12v side if you should loose your ground path back to the battery. one and two circuit polarity protection devices are available commercially, so this function could be replaced by a single circuit device on the 12v circuit(100A battery isolator).

Second, the LBCD senses alt RPM and output. If not appropriate, it sends a ground signal to the remote disconnect module which disconnects the batteries to save the alt. If still not appropriate it sends a ground to the dash charging system trouble light.

This is where your battery config comes into play. I think they added the monitor and disconnect feature when they finally realized how bad the battery and alternator mismatch was. I have never seen this type system in any vehicle I have ever worked on, so if your alt and battery are properly matched, this feature becomes unnecessary Like every other vehicle on the road…

the last feature, a large capacitor bank, is I believe directly linked to the second feature. When you disconnect the batteries from an alternator at full load, that energy has to go somewhere untill the regulator gets the output under control to match the now greatly reduced electrical load. I believe the caps serve this purpose.

Right now I'm running 4 new 6TL's. Definitely considering only running 2. Does the 2 battery setup match up better to the 100AMP alternator, eliminating the need all together and just getting a commercially available PPD.

 

[johnhatem]

Well there are some variables to consider. First off what batteries are you running?

The LBCD is a dual polarity protection device first. Designed to make battery connection/work a little more soldier proof. If you are confident in your ability to disconnect and reconnect batteries properly, it is mostly unnecessary. only running 2 batteries makes this process a lot simpler also. On a dual voltage system, it also protects from the 24v side reversing current flow to the 12v side if you should loose your ground path back to the battery. one and two circuit polarity protection devices are available commercially, so this function could be replaced by a single circuit device on the 12v circuit(100A battery isolator).

Second, the LBCD senses alt RPM and output. If not appropriate, it sends a ground signal to the remote disconnect module which disconnects the batteries to save the alt. If still not appropriate it sends a ground to the dash charging system trouble light.

This is where your battery config comes into play. I think they added the monitor and disconnect feature when they finally realized how bad the battery and alternator mismatch was. I have never seen this type system in any vehicle I have ever worked on, so if your alt and battery are properly matched, this feature becomes unnecessary Like every other vehicle on the road…

the last feature, a large capacitor bank, is I believe directly linked to the second feature. When you disconnect the batteries from an alternator at full load, that energy has to go somewhere untill the regulator gets the output under control to match the now greatly reduced electrical load. I believe the caps serve this purpose.

Also can you send me a link to the commercially available product you are referring to.

 

[Ronmar]

Are they AGMs or wet cells? A pair of 6T wet cells @120AH, are a much better match for the alt.

If they are wet cells, then dropping to a pair and a standard PPD would work fine.

Because of the AGMs power requirements, Anything larger than a pair of group 24s are too large in AGM IMO. It really isnt an issue if they stay charged. The problem arises if they somehow become discharged they can place a large sustained load on the alt. The LBCD was put there to prevent this, instead of properly resizing the battery or alternator…

 

[johnhatem]

They are wet cells, you can point me in the direction of those dual circuit PPD?

 

[johnhatem]

I have new and used ones

Can you PM the price for each?

 

[Ronmar]

I am not coming across a dual PPD, I thought I had seen one, sorry. It is just a diode in a heatsync. For a single you could use any simple diode battery isolator(One input feeds 2 batteries via diodes). you would just not use one of the outputs, and always have a spare available. Deka, Sure power(OEM PPD manufacturer) and Cole Hersee make an assortment of these On amazon, Etrailer, that e auction site ect…

Or you could simply use the PPD used on the A0. Will probably has one of those also there is what looks like a new-old stock unit up for auction on the E auction site right now. no bids, opening bid $19.99… Hell I even have a used one if you cant find one anywhere else…

 

[johnhatem]

I am not coming across a dual PPD, I thought I had seen one, sorry. It is just a diode in a heatsync. For a single you could use any simple diode battery isolator(One input feeds 2 batteries via diodes). you would just not use one of the outputs, and always have a spare available. Deka, Sure power(OEM PPD manufacturer) and Cole Hersee make an assortment of these On amazon, Etrailer, that e auction site ect…

Or you could simply use the PPD used on the A0. Will probably has one of those also there is what looks like a new-old stock unit up for auction on the E auction site right now. no bids, opening bid $19.99… Hell I even have a used one if you cant find one anywhere else…

Thanks so much for all the help

 

[johnhatem]

Ok, won the new old stock auction on the E-auction site this AM. $19.99 with shipping $37.88. Way better than $2,400 for new LBCD.

Gonna switch to a two battery setup, with a permanently installed NOCO maintainer

Thank y'all again for the assist...

 

[johnhatem]

Ok, got everything working. Had two connections in the battery box that were not connected.

Had the A connection off the LBCD wire 1850 on the diagram wire 1650 (TL550A) on my truck not connected to Battery 3 Negative Terminal (BT3 E2)

and

Had the E connection off the LBCD wire 1851 on the diagram wire 1651 (TL551A) on my truck not connected to Manual Disconnect Switch. as per the diagram. The wire would only reach Battery 1 Positive Terminal (BT1 E1) it had a lug on it looks like it got disconnected and hidden in the box.

After hooking up those wires up, everything worked green light on LBCD and 14V / 28V at the batteries

Here is my last question, the diagram shows it on the the off side of the manual disconnect, it looks like it was run to the battery directly on my truck. Does it need to be on the other side of the disconnect, will it drain down battery?

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Ronmar]

1850 needs to go to ground side of the batteries and wire 1851 is the LBCD battery 24 sense and trickle charge line. I don’t think it will drain anything, but It probably should go on the disconnect side of the 24v manual disconnect sw as shown in the drawing just to insure the batts are completely isolated when you turn off that manual sw.