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Lower Number fuel button/PYRO install

73m819

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Has anybody put a LOWER number fuel button in there NON-turboed 250, If you did, do you know What was your EGTS for a 5 or 10 number drop from stock, I have the IP out to fix a input shaft seal, so NOW is the time to change buttons if I'm going to do it,
 

73m819

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Down OPENS The fuel, going UP is MORE fuel restriction

Has a 27 in now as the standard button, thinking of putting a 22, or maybe a 20, just worried about the EGTs if I dump to much fuel in.
 
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73m819

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Well since I did not get a response to my question, looks like I will need to install a PYRO. So with that said,

1---I guess I am looking for a 24V, 2" (to match dash gauges) digital read out, any suggestions
2---Where would I install the prob on a straight piped NON-turboed Cummins 250, It looks like I have two choices,
------A--In the rear exhaust manifold that number 5 and 6 cylinders feed into (the hottest feed).
------B--At the collection point in the middle exhaust manifold just above where the exhaust pipe bolts, This would give a average exhaust temp.
 

Floridianson

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Has a 27 in now as the standard button, thinking of putting a 22, or maybe a 20, just worried about the EGTs if I dump to much fuel in.[/QUOTE]
I believe the problem is not the EGT's but the increase pressure on the injector not being bigger to let the pressure out. I don't think going over 182 psi is wise without the proper motor build.
 

73m819

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Stock rail pressure is 172-178, I have seen other discussions on dropping the button number a bit but no talk of changing injectors, still a thought, need Will Wagner to check in.

Think dropping the button number a bit is better then drilling out the ball in the throttle shaft, and then adjusting the fuel there.
 
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countryboy5487

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well ill chime in on this one because ive done this mod. well not on a 5 ton but on a non-turbo cummins in a 1970 international. on my truck i only changed my fuel button and had no problims got more power and a lil more emissions :) over all i think that changing the button is the simplest way to get a few more ponies. now as for what number button to drop down to on a 250 not sure i dropped 12 but mine started life as a 230 and i had #42 and dropped to a 30. as for the pyro id deff put the probe at the collector toget a good overall temp your cylinders are running. most pyro equiped trucks are located there or just passed the turbo (that we dont have lol)
 

M813A1

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73M819 you might also consider the mod of adding the fuel line to the front of the block as well, that way the fuel pressure is equal along the whole block, and it is said it is a 25 hp gain by adding the additional fuel line !! I am interested how your truck runs with the repair you ae doing. I am considering dropping my fuel button too. Just not sure how far to lower the button number ?? Good Luck
 

Vintage iron

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the dual fuel mod definitely makes the Cummins 250 run and pull smoother but I lost top end when I did it. I need to get more pressure out of the pump now.
 

jarhead1086

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I have a pyro and dual fuel line coming from Pittsburgh Power this week. Anxious to liven it up just a bit. Getting the air brake lines in the right spot and the wedges working was a big improvement. Pulling and repacking the hubs helped as well. Its much less of a dog on the hills. Its a Cadillac on the flats with the Michelin 395's. Is there any new info on the button change versus turning it up at the adjustment screw? What safe recipes are the RKI's using?
 

73m819

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First THANK YOU for bringing this thread back up, I had forgotten all about it, It is one of my SITE peeves that members start a thread like this and NEVER share the results and here I am doing it, SORRY, will try not to let it happen again.

It was real easy to change the button, I have been told that it can be done with the ip installed, now in my case, I had to pull the pump to reseal it so did the button swap at the same time, I would recommend that you pull the pump, it makes it a lot easier where you can see everything, a lot LESS dirt to deal with,, and you might as well REseal (one less thing to worry about down the road because of the dry fuel).
It took me less then a hour to reseal and change the button, it took more time to get the freggen ip off and back on then it did then the ip redo.
If you reseal, change BOTH seals.
The gasket I had was wrong as it was for a wrecker ip, where the 819 has the standard ip (should be the wrecker ip) so I made one out of the same thickness gasket stock, It is IMPORTANT that if you need to make gaskets, that they ARE the SAME thickness as the OE.
REMEMBER IPs DO NOT LIKE DIRT, not even a little bit.

I dropped the button from the stock 27 button to a 22 button, WHAT a difference, where I had to down shift from 5th to 4th I now run 5th, the 36.000 lb 819 REALLY wants to pull, putting out some black smoke on the pull (smoke is good), also makes the hole between 3rd and 4th almost livable, I have NOT installed a pyro yet, lack of funds but I really need to do it before I have a melt down, I have to remember to get out of the throttle on LONNNNNNNNNNNG pulls. My speed has not really increased by any great amount but my PULLING power is WAY UP.

As far as rail pressure goes, these engines will handle a number 5 button BUT about anything under a 22 needs to be used with a turbo other wise the EGts WILL get extremely high, real quick, the reason the Canadian 809s run a 20 is there engines HAVE a turbo, if you ARE running a 20 button without a turbo, keep a CLOSE eye on the EGTs
Another thing, the lowering of the button does not really raise the rail pressure much if at all, what it does do is allow MORE fuel to the injectors at the existing rail pressure, at least that is how it was explained to me.
I also after I installed the ip, I turned my idle to 650, a LOT smother idle, REMEMBER when ever you do any adjustment to the ip, it MUST be at operating temperature. to much idle will result in slow rpm drop when the foot is taken off the throttle.

For those that were at to 13SSGAR, heard the 819 idle, and saw it run down the road, any rpm over 1000 requires hearing protection because of the 4" straight pipe.

Well I hope this brings everybody up to date, should have done this a lot sooner, like a year ago,
 
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Floridianson

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So Ron you did not do anything with the fuel at the throttel shaft you just changed the Idle Spring Punger or what some call the button.The guys a the injector shop seem to guard the secrets and must take an oath to work on Cummins PT's. Seems like we would do good to increase flow and pressure. My guy only brought mine up to 182lb and would not say more about what he did. From reading something about hard on the nose of the cam at Idle.? Also reading some say just do throttel screw and some say plunger some say do both. Anyone want to go to PT school?
Ron you still have a gage to hook up to the PT?
If the plunger (button) gets more fuel down the line then if we do the throttel screw to increase pressure? I read that 1/4 turn counter clockwise does 20lb. ? wish some one would make a movie with it on the injector machine and show us the tweeks.
 
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73m819

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The way it was explained to me was that more pressure did not equate to more fuel at the injector, what is needed is more fuel (volume) at the injectors, hence the button drop, after a certain point more pressure is needed to push the extra fuel but this is why above what the 250 can handle.

I really need to mount a pressure gage to see what is going on, maybe T the line to the heads.

I am really happy with the way the 819 perked up, if my 36.000lb truck runs better, any of the lighter trucks ought to pick up real nice, this along with my veneer cable hand throttle install really makes the 819 a lot easier to deal with.
 

AMGeneral

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Interesting read Ron,I guess if the 250 in the 813A1 frees up after getting it here,I'll be doing the dual feed line modification as well as changing the button in the pump.

I actually did the throttle shaft screw modification on the M816 when I had it,it perked up,but it still seemed lacking on hills.

I did make sure and turn it back down before I sold it.

Who knows,maybe i'll straight pipe it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgCtFcfI-80
 
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