M1009 starting issues

[Cletus09]

First thing: I am dumb to normal vehicle electronics, especially this 12/24 volt system.
About the only thing I know is that the frame is the ground

When I bought my M1009 it started fine. I drove it around for awhile then just the other day I began to have starting problems. It turned over hard on a couple of starts and then, a week later I went out to start it up again and it would just barely turnover, not fast enough to start the engine. I tested the batteries and I was getting 11.2 volts off the rear battery and 12.5 off of the front battery. I Jumped it from the rear battery and it turned over hard once or twice and then turned over faster and started. I did this to get to and from work, since its the only vehicle I have. Now it won't even turn over, the only noise is the clunk of the solenoid. I checked the batteries again and they were the same. I disconnected the starter wire from the started and stuck I the meter on it. I recall getting about 23.5 volts there. With the vehicle turned off I was getting 24 volts between the positive terminal on the passenger alternator and a ground, and 12 on the driver's side alternator. Also I have been having an array of dash light/brake light problems - not sure if the related or not. The gen1 light was coming on when I started the vehicle but it would go off as soon as raised the engine RPM's... And I think the gen2 light was not working, because it didn't come on when the key was turned to "on" (before the starting problem).

I do not know what to do, i don't even know where to start!

 

[cpf240]

Pull the batteries and have them load tested at the local auto parts store. I'm guessing that the rear battery will fail under load test. If they pass the load test, give them a full charge and see how it does.

While you are in there, clean all the electrical connections you can find. It is possible that one or more of the battery cable has some internal corrosion as well, causing a drop under load.

Still, I'd start with the batteries first.

After the batteries are confirmed good, start checking the alternators, perhaps Gen 2 is not working well enough to keep the rear battery charged.

 

[rickf]

Definitely a bad battery, did you have any charging lights on when it was running? If not then the alternators are good and it is just a bad battery. Replace both.

Rick

 

[tbearatkin]

I may be mistaken but I do believe if you Gen 2 light is burnt out your alternator will not work. This could be your issue. The back battery is not being charged

 

[Cletus09]

Thanks for the help, I'll definitely have them load tested and charge them externally. Can I get a civilian bulb for the gen2 light?

 

[cpf240]

Can I get a civilian bulb for the gen2 light?

Its just a bulb, nothing special. Just be aware that the Gen 2 bulb has a different rating from all the others. I don't remember the number for it, but it should be in the CUCV FAQ.

 

[tbearatkin]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/85296-gen-light-question.html

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/61705-168-194-bulbs-instrument-cluster.html

The 194 is the bulb for the GEN2

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/46054-cucv-instrument-cluster-decoded.html

 

[mistaken1]

And I think the gen2 light was not working, because it didn't come on when the key was turned to "on" (before the starting problem).

There it is....... gen2 charges the back battery which is only used for starting. After several starts the back battery is too low to crank the engine.

GEN2 (passenger) charges the rear battery. If the bulb doesn't come on then the alternator isn't charging.

The GEN2 circuit is more complicated than the GEN1. More stuff to look at.

Start by checking/replace the 24v fuse and then check the voltage on the exciter plug.

24v at all times on the red wire, 24v on the brown with the key on, 0v with the key off.

Many times the exciter plug is nasty dirty and needs to be cleaned or replaced.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/60698-more-alternator-electrical-questions.html

 

[Cletus09]

There it is....... gen2 charges the back battery which is only used for starting. After several starts the back battery is too low to crank the engine.

So what you're saying is that the bulb is the problem, and when I replace the bulb, gen2 will charge the second battery just fine?

 

[Warthog]

To answer your question...maybe

For either alternator to work the bulbs MUST be working.

Then if the alternators still aren't working then further testing is required.

 

[Warthog]

To answer your question...maybe

For either alternator to work the bulbs MUST be working.

Then if the alternators still aren't working then further testing is required.

 

[Cletus09]

Sorry it has been awhile, I was unable to work on this problem for the past couple days. I took the dash apart, and all the bulbs are good... All the dummy light come on when the ignition is turned on except the gen 2 light, but it is still good and not burned out. I have no dash illumination lights at all, and the brake lights wont work. all the flashers and signalling lights work, just not the brake lights. I am beginning to think that maybe I have a short somewhere. Any suggestions on where to look first, I am lost.

 

[Cletus09]

I confirmed the short. I can get 12.5 volts between the negative terminal on the battery and a ground. There should be nothing there because nothing was turned on. It also means that there is a short in a system that only uses 12 volts and not 24. so that limits some of the possibilities. Are there any popular places to get 12 volt shorts on these things?

 

[mistaken1]

Did you download the manuals? They include wiring diagrams. There are a number of places that have diodes for radio noise suppression that can short out. Warthog has posted pictures of these in various and sundry threads.

The simplest way to troubleshoot electrical circuits is break them in half and check each half. Bad on one half? Break that one in half and test each way. Bad on one half of that? Break that part in half ant test each way. Keep going until you isolate the problem.

It would not hurt to replace all the fuses and clean the fuse block first. Then clean all electrical connections (battery terminals, grounds, 12v and 24v buses). Check the ground under the drivers side dash above the parking brake, that causes lots of screwy light problems if missing, dirty or damaged.

If you know the gen two lamp is good but it is not coming on then there is still an issue, Did you check of power at the gen two lamp socket? Did you check for continuity to ground on the other side of the lamp socket? Did you read the link I posted where Warthog details troubleshooting gen2?

We are dealing with a 25+ year old vehicle that was used by 18 to 22 year old kids who did not own it ......... if you have ever watched the abuse people heap on company vehicles ..... its just not right.

 

[wired1000]

This is interesting... I haven't had any starting/charging issues, but my Gen2 light never comes on either. I'll be watching this thread and very interested in the outcome!

My only advice is get a king-size tube of Di-electric grease. After cleaning electrical connections, dab some of this on the connection as it will keep them from corroding or screwing anything up for a long time to come. I suspect that pretty much every connection you clean, you'll think to yourself "Holy crap... how does electricity even get through here????"

 

[Cletus09]

To those who were watching this to I apologize, I ended up charging the battery and ignoring the problem until it died again, the other day.

I think I may have found the problem after reading this: CUCV alternator symptoms, diagnosis and fix.

This sounded like the exact same problem I was having. I went and ordered a diode trio from cucvelectric.com. Once I receive it I'll put things back together and post the results.
Also if you would rather buy a diode trio from Napa, their part number is: ECH AD1206
However, cucvelectric.com offers the part cheaper, especially if you are paying Napa's shipping.

 

[n1vbn]

It Might be the diode trio but you'd be better rebuilding the alternator go here for decent price and info on your electrical systems.

CUCV Electric

This website will help in addition to the members here on Steel Soldiers.