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M1028 or 1008 for an expedition car??

syche

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Hi Everybody.

This is my first post so i will present quickly myself.

I am french working in Asia and i am use to do off road trips in africa.

I am owning a Toyota landcruiser HDJ80 witch i am upgrading for my next longer trips (about 1 to 2 months long) and i am quite interested by this american pickup, the K30.

We have only few enthusiast in france so it is hard to get input on this model, but apperently here you seems to know very well the baby:-D.

I am considering to replace my HDJ80 by on of these M1008 or 1028 for my next expeditions.

I would like to know if this model can be considered as extremely reliable on offroad use, tracks dunes river cross, ice and deep snow. Temperature from -40 degrees C to 60 degrees C.

Can it carry offroad 1.5 to 2 tonnes of equipment?

What kind of upgrades this truck require to fit the job? Do the frame need to be reinforced?

Do parts are easy to find? Do the powertrain can handle hard and long work in soft sand and burning rocks?

What would be the clearance bellow axles with 35 or 36" tires?

Is it possible to fit Torsen or truetrac differentials in both dana 60 axles?:roll: i am a big fan of these;-).

And now, what would be the gas millage for this truck, with 35 to 37" tires, and a 4" lift. On roads..90/100km/h and highway 110/120km/h and in sand?

Well i take all inputs:-D.

Oh, one more thing:roll:, i have seen a couple of post ragarding the the glow plug for pre heating ..is it a weakness on this model?


I hope to read you soon:-D.

Best regards to all
Syche
 

appalacious

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I'm really not sure how cold it can get and the diesel engine still run.
-40 C sounds frigid.

Other than that, I'm also not sure how well a 1008 can cruise at 120 km/h (75mph) but I have an m1009- it can do it. They have a different gear in the rear differential.

The parts are all over the place here in the states. Of course I have no idea about Asia and Africa.
 

Pawnshop

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Austin/Cedar Park Texas
I am by far not an expert on the subject, but I think in terms of finding parts and local mechanics that know how to work on them, the Toyota has the advantage in Africa, Asia and Australia. I have a friend who went to Australia trekking around the outback for a month and he bought a Toyota when he got there and resold it when he left. In one small blip on the road the only mechanic there was a Toyota man and he noticed a problem that would have left them stranded in the desert, he actually HEARD the problem as they drove past him on the way out of town and flagged them down! I doubt that would happen driving a CUCV anywhere but in the US.
 
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syche

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France
Hi,

For the diesel, in countries where the temperature is going down like this, we can find -35 or -40 degrees diesel, i was working in Inermongolia, (Chinese Mongolia) for almost 2 years in a remote place and we could find this diesel as all trucks were running with it.

For the cruising speed, i have been told buy some French owner that they were cruising this speed on the pickup with 35 to 37" tires on a M1008 with standard axle ratio and it could go up to 150km/h in the longer M1009 ratio.

They also say we can use M1009 ratio on a M1008 with 35" tires to take down RPM and lower the fuel consuption by 2l/100km.

But they all, hardly recommand to use an big oil cooler on the gearbox.

According to them on normal use, it runs about 14l/100km....but i have no idea how much it use in sand?:roll:

And how it work in sand dune especially on the top edge....with the 4" lift and 35 to 37" tires:roll:.

Regarding the parts..for sure in africa it is easy to find toyotat parts, but parts for african version, and not for europeen versions. I can find almost all parts for my old 80, but do not expect to find much things for a 100 or newer:twisted:.

I am interested in this truck for the size of it, in desert it is not a proble, there is room enough, not like in the narrow french forest tracks;-), and this truck would be able to carry all the stuff i need for me and the technical assistance of my friends.

I need something basic, strong, very reliable, big but still classified as a normal car, cruissing 110/120km/h and with a reasonnable fuel consumption.

Do some of you are using this car as acamper or expedition car here, or have experience with it in desert??

Thanks all
:-D
 

maritimer

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i dont have experience i nthe desert but my m-1009 does start in -28C takes a couple of cycles of the glow plugs and sputters as the cylenders warm up and start firing. as for speed well in the M1009 *blazer version* after turning up the fuel pump, advancing hte timing, and opening up the exhuast from the factory chokers to cherry bomb glas packs i can get 90-95 mph * last mark on speedo is 85 and the needle was in the middle of the odometer so it was a rough guestimate at actual speed*. as to mile per gallon well, i figure around 19-20 mpg in my current set-up. the m1008 or pick-up version has alot lower gears which drop top speed considerably and kill fuel milage.
oh and to add, if you plan on doing speeds like 90-95mph regularly expect alot of little repairs to add up and do ALOT of preventiive maintenecnce
 
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syche

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France
Hi Maritimer,

I don't want a cruising speed higher than 70, 75mph. This is enough for me. 20mpg is quite low for this big truck, that sounds good. What gearing have in in your 1009?

I saw a couple of post regarding pre heat problem, do you have inputs about that or correctives actions to do?

If i go for this truck, i would make a couple of upgrades like

Extra oil cooler for the gearbox
Torsen differentials or truetrac
Turbo kit, if reliable or a specific exhaust manifold with timing respect. (It make a big difference on HZJ engine from toyota so why not on this truck)
Rear brake disc conversion
Proper 4" lift suspension
Good tires 35 to 37"
If needed repalcement of axle ratio:roll: but i am affraid it would make it lazy and thursty in sand??:roll: to 4.10 to down a little the fuel consuption.


Do any of you have replace the gear box for a TH 700? what to replace or to modify to get it in?:wink:

Thanks a lot guys:-D
 

hobie237

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I would like to know if this model can be considered as extremely reliable on offroad use, tracks dunes river cross, ice and deep snow. Temperature from -40 degrees C to 60 degrees C.
They're pretty tough trucks so long as you keep up on the maintenance.

Can it carry offroad 1.5 to 2 tonnes of equipment?
Dunno- are you talking about pulling a trailer or hauling it in the bed? If in the bed, then I'd recommend a set of helper springs, since the trucks are rated to 1.25 tons. A set of 2500 pound helpers would bump that to 2.5 and you'd be fine. For loads that heavy, though, you may want to consider adding more power, depending on the terrain you're in. At the very least, you'll want something better than the 2.48 first gear of the TH400, at least you'll want something better if you actually want to be able to get going uphill in mud or sand with that kind of load.

What kind of upgrades this truck require to fit the job? Do the frame need to be reinforced?
Frame should be fine, but for serious offroad use you'll want to beef up the steering. If it was me building up the truck, I'd also want to replace the TH400 trans with anything that doesn't have such crappy ratios as well.

Do parts are easy to find? Do the powertrain can handle hard and long work in soft sand and burning rocks?
Parts are easy to find around here, because they're common, off the shelf Chevrolet parts. I have no idea what the Chevrolet parts situation is like in your area, but it should be easy enough for you to ask around for Chevy K30, base model, 6.2L (VIN J) diesel parts. The military-specific parts, though, may be tough to come by, like the alternators and the starter. I mean, you can get them, but if you need them fast, it'll take even longer and/or be way more expensive than it is for us here. You may want to consider a 12v conversion on the truck so that everything is common and off the shelf. There are only a few hard to get, non-civilian parts, but when you lose a starter, it sucks.

The 6.2 diesel should be fine, the Dana 60 and 14 bolt rear should be fine. The Detroit Locker in the rear should get you out of even the nastiest situations.

What would be the clearance bellow axles with 35 or 36" tires?
No idea, but I suppose you could look up the factory ground clearance (stock tires are ~32") and then add to that figure whatever the new tires would add.

Is it possible to fit Torsen or truetrac differentials in both dana 60 axles?:roll: i am a big fan of these;-).
Why on earth would you want a Torsen differential in ANY off road situation, much less an extreme one like some of the things you seem to be describing? I mean, you *do* realize that a Torsen is worthless if one wheel is off the ground or otherwise has no traction, right?

That said, yes, it's possible to fit various types of limited slips and lockers to a Dana 60. Personally I'd go for an air or electric locker so that it doesn't screw up your steering (you can leave it open) and you have full locking action when needed.

And now, what would be the gas millage for this truck, with 35 to 37" tires, and a 4" lift. On roads..90/100km/h and highway 110/120km/h and in sand?
120km/h (roughly 75mph for those too lazy to convert) is a lofty goal with the 4.56 gears. With a non-overdrive trans and 37" tires, the top speed (redline in third) is about 82mph, so the motor will be spinning pretty damn fast. Not recommended for long periods if it can be avoided. Yes, the M1009s have 3.08 gears and can do highway speeds even with the stock tires without the motor screaming, but that's not really relevant, because for hauling heavy loads over nasty terrain, the 1009 is pretty much out of the question. An overdrive transmission would help with the engine speed at highway cruise.

As far as fuel consumption, I've found that the usage of the truck doesn't really matter, it's always around 15 miles/gallon. Around town the fuel economy sucks because you're hauling around 6000 pounds of steel even without any load, and on the highway you lose because you have the frontal area of a small building. Off-road fuel economy is nearly impossible to figure out, since the speeds involved are so low. I would recommend adding the second fuel tank, though. The stock 20-gallon unit provides lackluster range at best. It's fine when just driving around- but you whouldn't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere low on fuel.


Oh, one more thing:roll:, i have seen a couple of post ragarding the the glow plug for pre heating ..is it a weakness on this model?
Glow plugs are fine, except when they burn out. Burnt out glow plugs shouldn't come as a surprise on an older truck, though. What most people complain about is the stock automatic controller system going bad, which then fails to properly cycle the plugs. I just ripped out the stock system and replaced it with a manual button that I hold to cycle the plugs on. Some people complain that the manual plugs are somehow inferior to the automatic systems, but I've yet to figure out why. The glow plugs don't know whether they're being actuated manually or automatically, so I'm guessing it's user error.

As for your other questions:

The trans is cooled fine for most peoples' use. I doubt you'd be too hard on it, but trans coolers are cheap. Just make sure you don't overcool the trans in the -40 degree weather you're talking about.

See my earlier comments regarding front limited slip differentials. The M1028 has a front limited slip.

Banks turbo kit is a good one, or you can add the system from a 6.5L truck.

Rear disc conversion would be nice, but not really necessary. I think it would be cool, and not all that difficult, but it's just not worth it to me. The stock system hasn't let me down yet.

The only issue with lifting the truck is the load capacity. Most lift springs aren't designed to carry heavy loads, if anything, they're designed to compress more so that the wheels stay on the ground better. Just be careful in your selection.

I've got 35" tires on the stock suspension (although I have helpers in the back which add a good bit of clearance) with minor front fender trimming. AJMBLAZER has 38s on his with 1" of front lift and fender trimming, but they're narrow 38s.

If you're seriously going to be using the truck off road, and hauling 1-2 tons off road, there is no way in hell you want to cut into the gearing. If anything, you may want to go deeper, but I think the 4.56 combined with the NP208's low range should be fine. It's the 2.48 first gear that sucks.

People have installed 700s. I don't know if it fits well with your use, although a built 700 should be able to handle it. Modification is minimal, and the gear ratios are better, but there are those who have problems with them. If you were using the truck primarily on road without the type of extreme situations I'm thinking up, I'd say it'd be just fine.
 

AJMBLAZER

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www.ColoradoK5.com has a lot of owners of this vintage GM truck. Mainly an offroading and modification sight too. Some European members too...although I don't believe there's any from France.

You'd definitely want an OD transmission for extended periods of time over 100kph, even with the stock gears and 38" tires. Mine gets long winded, LOUD, and sucks gas past that. I haven't recalibrated my speedo but doing rough mental math I know I'm down around 13mpg or so with the big 38's. OD would add mpg for sure but how much is questionable. These trucks are big, heavy, unaerodynamic, and a bit underpowered.
The 700R4 could be made to work but for longevity I'd consider a NV4500 manual transmission or a 4L80E overdrive (sorta a TH400 with an OD gear). Neither is bolt in though.

If everything is working right, well maintained, and you've converted it to common GM 12v components then I'd think you could take it around the world twice...but there's a lot of if's in that. 20+ year old vehicle, American vehicle so take it out of N America and away from markets where it was sold and parts would get scarce fast, stock setup wouldn't be ideal so you'd have issues with putting in upgrade parts and then what to do if they break in the middle of India or something, etc. However as you pointed out that could happen with a Toyota too.

Diffs...frankly I'd keep te 4.56's if you're going to run 37-38's, even with OD. Also, leave the rear with the Detroit Locker unless you're putting a selectable locker in the rear. In the front...run a selectable locker. Ever find yourself in somewhere cold and snowy and you'll really NOT want a limited slip or full time locker up front.

Definitely rebuild the engine and turbo it or put a turbo'd 6.5L in it. You'll want more power quickly for those long dune blasts.

Tuff Country has an HD line of springs that are well regarded here and on ColoradoK5. There's also a number of aftermarket spring makers in America who could make you a set but the issue would be most of them are meant more for sand running and high speed offroading than load carrying.
 

syche

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France
Hi all ,

Really thanks a lot for all your inputs, it is so nice to find a place to get answers:-D.

Regarding the suspension, i was thinking a standar + 3 or 4" with a set of airbarg helper or an added coil spring, we have try that on other pickups and it works great, you can adjust hight and hardness of the suspension. And to prevent damage on them, just get them in a jean legg:wink:.

For the differential, have any of you try the torsen once? This is just the best ever, i have now lockers (3) on my 80 and i regret so much my torsen on my KZJ73:cry:.
They work all the time, look for the best grip and never push you away in a muddy or snowy corner. And when 1 wheel is lifted, give it just a little braking, and you have a locker. really cool. And in sand you cannot beat them, the car, even stucked, is crawling and get out since i put this on my KZJ73, i never got stucked again, i was pulling all other cars and going crzy places where even an atv would have had hard time. And you can still turn, not like with a diff lock. And maybe now the Elec trac from eaton is available for dana 60, it is torsen + locker, the best:-D

I did not knew we could have a manual gearbox on that...Is it a 5 speed? where to find it, on witch truck was it mounted, is it a bolt on? Gear ratio? it could be my solution...i like manual gears;-).

For the load...it would be on the flat bed, but in Raid configuration, most likely less than 1 tone. 2 tones would be in the forest for getting out wood and bring some sand and concret bags for my next house:wink:.

i have heard some issue about the 6.5L, so i would stay on the 6.2 and maybe with a turbo ,if it is stronger.

For the fuel, i would install asecong tank on the right side and one instead of the spare wheel for a minimum total of 250 or 300 liters minimum. and 100 to 150 liters water.

For the tires, maybe some 900R16 on raid configuration to don't have the braking effect of wide tires in sand, and easy to find many places. and 35 to 37 normal use.

Disc brake conversion..i don't know how sensitive are the drumps, but on toyota they suck as soon as you get sand, water or mud in...so disc is cool for that:wink:

I found some spacial parts to mount on the frame next to the steering box to prevent cracks...this would be fitted, it is also known as weak point on the landcruiser

There is a couple of enthusisat in france, but you can count them on you finger, and we have a good supplyer for this car and spares parts in north of france. He seams to know this rig quite well. US-TRCK.fr;-).

Well, thanks a lot everybody, and again, i take all information about this truck, interesting upgrades to do, or small tricks to avoid problems. Thanks guys:-D

Oh, by the way, i am in south korea right now, and..they have still jeep kaiser in opperation here, looks wild:wink:
 

AJMBLAZER

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Just so you know the 9.00R16's should fit with the stock suspension. There's a fellow who posts on here occasionally in Italy with them. They're VERY uncommon here in the States though as our military never used them widely.
Airbags are popular here for load capacity adding. That way you can deflate them and not get a worse ride.

The civilian versions of these trucks came with a manual transmission, the SM465, but it was a 4 speed with no OD. This transmission was upgraded and an OD 5th gear added in the early 90's. GM and Dodge ran it in their 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks up until very recently. More info on swapping it can be found elsewhere on the net. It's not a direct swap as it was never offered in this era truck.


Keep in mind that most folks here consider offroading to be less long voyages and more short (as in hours or a day or so) trips with intense 4x4 use. We like lockers because you have traction. No ifs ands or buts and no brake modulation or any tricks to make it work. Most of us have had limited slips in one form or another and limited slips won't work for most intense wheeling here. Lifting a tire and having one spinning isn't cool when you're trying to get up and over something.
However the same thing still applies with a limited slip, Torsen or not, in the front in slick conditions. I wouldn't run one at all. Put an ARB or other selectable locker in the front. Push a button and it's 100% locked, push it again and it's 100% open.

Good sight for you to peruse:
www.OffRoadDesign.com
 

syche

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France
:wink:Thanks for the link AJMBLASER. I got it already.

I would put alift to help jumping the top edge of dunes, thids truck has a quite long wheel base and i beleive the lift is more than necessary.

I will look into this manual gear conversion see if i can find something. i will post here if i get something interesting.

Regards
 

WARWAG

Active member
For -40C you would need to add 25% gas to the diesel. The axles on the M1028 have a rear Corporate 14 Bolt rear axle with is very strong and Expedition qualified for sure. It also has a Detroit locker which is a great and reliable unit. The front axle is a Dana 60 which is almost as strong as the 14 Bolt rear axle. It has a limited slip rear diff. The transfercase is the tried and true NP205 which is about as good as it gets. The only draw back is it Low range which is ok at best. The good news is you can add a doubler kit which makes it the best tranfercase you can get, You can keep the rear axle in low range and make those hard turns then switch back into 4 low. The 6.2 diesel is a bit on the low power side but is a pretty good engine. You can add a Banks Turbo kit (Sidewinder) and get 200 hp out of her reliably. The only problem you will have is getting one. The U.S. Military vehicles sold to the U.S. Citizens are not to be exported. The running gear is as good and better than anything foregn(to us)made. But the avaiability of parts in foriegn countries will be your limiting factor. All vehicles will need at one time to be repaired and that usually happens when your in the middle of no where! Good luck
 

syche

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France
Hi All,

Yes i am still arround but the plan has change a little since i can't bring my truck to asia, unfortunatelly they have hugly regulation and........that won't make it for here.

So i got to find something local. At the moment it sounds like a chinese cherokee, 4l engine 6cyl, longer and higher body than the one we are use to see.
A couple of upgrade to make it hable to take some long trip and then we will see how it handle.

Thanks all for your inputs.
 

syche

New member
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1
Location
France
Hi All,

Sure they are, but the problem here is to find a good one, i meen one that has not been crashed. Most of the chinese ...can't really drive and have regular accidents so it is a big problem to find a good car as a second hand.

They have put various engines in them, from the 5.5 chrisler, 4l 6 cyl, and then some japanese engines like a 2.7l and a 2.4l.

Front axles are dana 30 but the newer version use CV joint int he front instead of the U joint, and the rear axle was chrisler 8.25 c clip, but since 2004 they use disc brakes on them so they have a modified chrisler 8.25 full floating 29 splines with disc brake. That is what i call an interesting upgrade.

They havea long body version with a wheel base 15cm longer and a roof lifted by 10cm. This gives a huge space to the rear passangers and make the car interesting for long trip as it is finally possible to sleep in.

But as all cherokee, the body need to be strenghtened. Some weld parts on it, roll cage or even U frames to bolt ont he factory rails, but i worry a little about corrosion between the added rail and the original one, it would be a perfect spot for some nasty rust.

I am still looking for THE one, but time is passing and i did not really find a proper one at a proper price.
 
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