M35A3 - Opinions Wanted !

[Valley Rock]

Looking at a couple A3's a friend has, I don't need two, so was thinking of buying them and selling one .

I have never owned nor even driven one of these, and prices for the few I've found for sale online are all over the pkace, from 2500. for parts trucks to 31k for a gold plated one .

So seriously, would love to hear anything you got .

Love em ?
Hate em ?
Want one ?

 

[Karl kostman]

Like everything there are the good and the not so good! The CAT engine is a very decent piece but very expensive to repair, CAT is very proud of their parts. The A3 has CTIS (central tire inflations system), in theory this is a grand idea but in the real world in which we live it can be problematic and again its rather expensive to repair and it can turn even simple maintenance into a real chore. The automatic trans seems solid and the hydraulic winch is an improvement over the PTO style. None of the Deuces will ever be mistaken for a powerful truck hence the gearing they have is needed for almost acceptable performance, if your hauling and or pulling a load the hills will take some planning and your never going to have to worry about speeding on your way up! It takes a different mindset to spend a lot of time in a Deuce, great trucks in many ways but you need to be patient and just enjoy the ride!!

 

[fuzzytoaster]

IMHO they're kind of the black sheep of the deuce world since they were a stop gap truck. AM General had bigger plans for them but the Army cut back budgets enough to get by so short cuts were made. If you can get a clean truck with a fiberglass hood for a decent price then great! Welcome to the hobby!

They are easy(er) to drive with the automatic transmission and the dual circuit brakes are a nice safety factor. Air-o-matic steering is a nice feature until you feel the actual power steering of a 5 ton. They're newer by production date so statistically less corrosion but YMMV as all military vehicles go.

You'll have a wide variety of sources for parts as roughly 90% of the truck is a stock M35A2. The remaining 10% will either be expensive or hard to source due to scarcity. They only made about 6000 units and, as a stop gap vehicle, longevity of parts sustainment wasn't in line with that.

 

[rtk]

IMHO they're kind of the black sheep of the deuce world since they were a stop gap truck. AM General had bigger plans for them but the Army cut back budgets enough to get by so short cuts were made. If you can get a clean truck with a fiberglass hood for a decent price then great! Welcome to the hobby!

They are easy(er) to drive with the automatic transmission and the dual circuit brakes are a nice safety factor. Air-o-matic steering is a nice feature until you feel the actual power steering of a 5 ton. They're newer by production date so statistically less corrosion but YMMV as all military vehicles go.

You'll have a wide variety of sources for parts as roughly 90% of the truck is a stock M35A2. The remaining 10% will either be expensive or hard to source due to scarcity. They only made about 6000 units and, as a stop gap vehicle, longevity of parts sustainment wasn't in line with that.

Exactly !!! LOL , nice MV's , But they have issues . CTIS is FUBAR , tires are another issue .

 

[rtk]

When I found out what replacement wheel bearings cost for the CTIS , I removed the A3 setup and used A2 bearings , much cheaper , The electric wipers were a nice touch . The Cat engine and Alison trans were good but topped out at around 50MPH or so . Dual master was a big safety issue for me , plus a better seat !!! The big issues as was said they only rebuilt about 6000 A2's into A3's so parts are your biggest problem , Given all that I would still buy the A3 if it was the RIGHT MV , not a fixer upper , good luck on the search ,

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Low power engine.
Yellow engine = lots of green to fix.
HUGE transmission losses = 45 MPH max speed (~50 if you push it).
CTIS = unreliable.

Benefits?

Auto (could be a con)
Super singles
Dual circuit brakes (also available in AF M35A2 on '87 contract)
Front end looks cooler?

Not worth the premium, or the limitations, IMO.

 

[HDN]

Low power engine.
Yellow engine = lots of green to fix.
HUGE transmission losses = 45 MPH max speed (~50 if you push it).
CTIS = unreliable.

Benefits?

Auto (could be a con)
Super singles
Dual circuit brakes (also available in AF M35A2 on '87 contract)
Front end looks cooler?

Not worth the premium, or the limitations, IMO.

A few things based on my experience with the truck:

• The CTIS is entirely optional. @rtk and myself have removed the wheel valves, which cuts that maintenance item out of the equation. It really depends on whether the owner really wants that for what they're doing with the truck.
• What I feel is prone to leaking, however, are the two-piece rims. Even if you think you've assembled them right, there's still a chance that they will leak somewhere. They appear similar to the 5-ton two-piece rims, but for some reason the clamp ring requires nearly twice the torque to tighten than the rims for the heavier truck
• I think the yellow engine is fine, though mine is actually painted OD If you don't break it, you don't have to fix it - just be on top of your PMs! And from what I've read on here, fixing a Cat is no more expensive than fixing a Cummins
• I don't think the Cat 3116 is particularly low on power, at least compared to the multifuel M35A2. Compared to other 3116 variants, definitely yes, and the NHC-250 in many of the 5-tons. Some marine versions of the 3116 hit 700 horsepower, and the 3116s used on the first generation of FMTV push... 300 horsepower? Either way, the 170 horsepower and 420 lb-ft of torque is much better than the old multifuel, and I think better than the turned-up multifuel used in the 5-tons. Coupled with the Allison automatic, the truck is quick to go from a stop. You'll still be slowing down on hills, though, but I don't think it's as slow as the multifuel.
• Another weak point to the truck is the Allison - sort of. Good luck finding any more surplus AT1545 locking transmissions as the skoolie crowd picked those all up a long time ago to replace their AT545s with - it's a direct swap. The M35A3 maintenance TM even has instructions for swapping to the more-common AT545. Also, the transmission can just meet the demands of a fully-loaded M35A3 towing a fully-loaded trailer to its data plate spec. The M36A3 goes over this limit on the transmission, which I believe can lead to premature transmission failure. I think the A2 can be abused a bit more load-wise because of the old 5-speed manual, so head the data plate limits on the A3! Also note that unlike the A2, the A3 does not double its load capacity on pavement. When the transmission is run within its limits I think it's just fine, and it can still be rebuilt as long as something doesn't go wrong with the locking function.
• I'm not sure how common knowledge this is these days, but the only electronic thing in the A3 is the CTIS. Everything else is purely mechanical.

As previously mentioned, the truck has about 90% parts commonality with the M35A2. The special wheel bearings suck, and I'm hoping that mine aren't trashed to the point where I have to decide whether to get $400/each NOS A3 bearings or do the work to convert to A2 bearings. Plus the truck comes from the factory with stuff that many A2 owners have modified their trucks with, such as

• Dual-circuit brakes
• Turn signals and reverse lamps
• Electric windshield wipers with a hand-pump sprayer
• Super single tires on factory six-lug M44A3 rims
• Cab heater with defroster vents and vent controls
• Cargo bed wall anchors for load straps
• A more-powerful diesel motor than the multifuel diesel
• Air-assisted steering

The M35A3 is as close to getting an FMTV as you can get without buying an FMTV, and I've seen A3s consistently priced less than M1078s and M1083s on the market.

 

[sue]

A few things based on my experience with the truck:

• The CTIS is entirely optional. @rtk and myself have removed the wheel valves, which cuts that maintenance item out of the equation. It really depends on whether the owner really wants that for what they're doing with the truck.
• What I feel is prone to leaking, however, are the two-piece rims. Even if you think you've assembled them right, there's still a chance that they will leak somewhere. They appear similar to the 5-ton two-piece rims, but for some reason the clamp ring requires nearly twice the torque to tighten than the rims for the heavier truck
• I think the yellow engine is fine, though mine is actually painted OD If you don't break it, you don't have to fix it - just be on top of your PMs! And from what I've read on here, fixing a Cat is no more expensive than fixing a Cummins
• I don't think the Cat 3116 is particularly low on power, at least compared to the multifuel M35A2. Compared to other 3116 variants, definitely yes, and the NHC-250 in many of the 5-tons. Some marine versions of the 3116 hit 700 horsepower, and the 3116s used on the first generation of FMTV push... 300 horsepower? Either way, the 170 horsepower and 420 lb-ft of torque is much better than the old multifuel, and I think better than the turned-up multifuel used in the 5-tons. Coupled with the Allison automatic, the truck is quick to go from a stop. You'll still be slowing down on hills, though, but I don't think it's as slow as the multifuel.
• Another weak point to the truck is the Allison - sort of. Good luck finding any more surplus AT1545 locking transmissions as the skoolie crowd picked those all up a long time ago to replace their AT545s with - it's a direct swap. The M35A3 maintenance TM even has instructions for swapping to the more-common AT545. Also, the transmission can just meet the demands of a fully-loaded M35A3 towing a fully-loaded trailer to its data plate spec. The M36A3 goes over this limit on the transmission, which I believe can lead to premature transmission failure. I think the A2 can be abused a bit more load-wise because of the old 5-speed manual, so head the data plate limits on the A3! Also note that unlike the A2, the A3 does not double its load capacity on pavement. When the transmission is run within its limits I think it's just fine, and it can still be rebuilt as long as something doesn't go wrong with the locking function.
• I'm not sure how common knowledge this is these days, but the only electronic thing in the A3 is the CTIS. Everything else is purely mechanical.

As previously mentioned, the truck has about 90% parts commonality with the M35A2. The special wheel bearings suck, and I'm hoping that mine aren't trashed to the point where I have to decide whether to get $400/each NOS A3 bearings or do the work to convert to A2 bearings. Plus the truck comes from the factory with stuff that many A2 owners have modified their trucks with, such as

• Dual-circuit brakes
• Turn signals and reverse lamps
• Electric windshield wipers with a hand-pump sprayer
• Super single tires on factory six-lug M44A3 rims
• Cab heater with defroster vents and vent controls
• Cargo bed wall anchors for load straps
• A more-powerful diesel motor than the multifuel diesel
• Air-assisted steering

The M35A3 is as close to getting an FMTV as you can get without buying an FMTV, and I've seen A3s consistently priced less than M1078s and M1083s on the market.

We have an A-3,
We are in Oklahoma but we have taken it to Arizona, Haspin in Indiana and all while towing our heavy duty flatbed trailer with our hmmwv on it.
With tools, camping gear etc. we are carrying (including towing) about 11K lbs.
Our modifications are changing out the 15-40 oil in the transmission to trans fluid, hydraulic power steering and with a CAT engine was easy with a simple bolt on hydraulic pump. We put 53” tires on. And yes it’s a 6X6 because we spread the rear axles out with new custom springs. ( that’s the short story)
We keep the rpm’s down and cruise under 60 mph, and the fuel mileage is truly unbelievable which we have checked, double, triple checked we average over 12 mpg.
And of course the auto trans is nice when we let our friends take a test drive.
Bottom line is we don’t regret getting it one bit.

 

[HDN]

We have an A-3,
We are in Oklahoma but we have taken it to Arizona, Haspin in Indiana and all while towing our heavy duty flatbed trailer with our hmmwv on it.
With tools, camping gear etc. we are carrying (including towing) about 11K lbs.

The ATF in the transmission pribably helps with longevity, especially if you're carrying and towing a total of 11000 lbs without any developing problems. The Allison manual says the transmission can take at most about 26000 lbs, so you're about there! The M36A3 would be overloading the transmission with a load like that.

What trailer do you tow your HMMWV on?

 

[glcaines]

I have an A3 and love it. It gets significant use, both off-road and on-road. I especially love the hydraulic winch. I've had mine for 12 years now and the only significant failure was a replacement alternator last year. I still have the CTIS installed and it works perfectly, although I don't use it. I keep my tires aired up to 60 PSI and the CTIS only goes to 45 PSI. I changed out the trans to Dexron 3 soon after I received the truck. Everything works on the truck and it is as reliable a vehicle as any of our cars or pickup. I previously owned an A2 at the same time as the A3 and I liked both, but I much prefer the A3.

 

[sue]

I have an A3 and love it. It gets significant use, both off-road and on-road. I especially love the hydraulic winch. I've had mine for 12 years now and the only significant failure was a replacement alternator last year. I still have the CTIS installed and it works perfectly, although I don't use it. I keep my tires aired up to 60 PSI and the CTIS only goes to 45 PSI. I changed out the trans to Dexron 3 soon after I received the truck. Everything works on the truck and it is as reliable a vehicle as any of our cars or pickup. I previously owned an A2 at the same time as the A3 and I liked both, but I much prefer the A3.

In answer to your question, it’s a 27’ single wheel double axle trailer, quite heavy duty empty weight is
about 4400 lbs. we have a 16’ double axle aluminum trailer we pull the jeep on for extended camping trips. It’s weight is under 1400 lbs. and of course it’s night and day difference.

 

[bprzyw]

Oh, if I found one I would buy an A3.
But I have my A2 that most of my time will go into.

 

[tobyS]

The Alison 1545 tranny has a weak 4th gear that making it a locking torque converter made worse. Age is compounding the problem because the seals in the clutch pack deteriorate. Some people have much better luck than others, but this model is nearing 30 years old. They start to leak and slipping and heat up, then melt the aluminum piston and send metal and clutch friction through the entire trans. We have now rebuilt several, using the 545 parts and having the locking TC rebuilt. There are racing and tractor pullers using the 4L80 which the "through gear" is interchangeable into the 4th in the Alison and they make racing clutches (thinner and more area) and also vulcanized steel clutch pistons, that are much stronger and much better seals. It can be cheap if you are an Allison builder but to most....it's really expensive. Oh....you can stick a PTO on the side of the tranny with close coupled pump.

My opinion, they make a great 4x4, but need gears that bring them to safe highway speed. First, stopping....the 50/50 brake are perfect for the 4x4 and the A3 used 1 1/2" pistons on the front, because the bigger tires increased the torque (and the caster flat). The 1 1/2" pistons can be put in the back (replacing the 1 3/8"), thus giving a true, balanced 50/50 circuit that can take the bigger tires. GY 395 is rated to 60...but to get there takes gears or OD transfer case. the 1545 is 1/1 and so is the TC.

 

[tobyS]

Look for rust behind the rear axle trunnion plate, between the flat plate and the frame. Some of those may be the original A2 and the frame of some is deteriorated. I plated a 10" section because of that rust. A real load near the rated capacity would have been unsafe.

 

[Valley Rock]

Thank you everyone for your input on this, after learning more about the A3 I don't want one .