M818 trip

[reb87]

I have 5 boys and have been taking different ones with me to recover my m35,m109,m818 and m944 so far, they really like helping me. I took my m818 over to pick up a grain tralier inft dodge IA a couple of weeks ago and got nailed by dot right after I got into iowa (just the truck with no trailer). The officer was traveling towards me and noticed my farm license plate and thougth it was strange a military truck had a plate. In nebraska as a farmer I dont have to have a dot number or keep a log book but when I crossed state lines my farm exemption goes away even though they have the same for their farmers. I got fined $380 for no logbook,no dot number,no fuel permit(I know ignorance is no excuse but I didnt even know what a fuel permit was) I do have a cdl because I have to here to drive a tractor truck. The dot shut me down for 10hrs because of the lack of a log book. I figured if I evened the $380 out over all the recovery trips I made with no problems I could live with it but it was sure hard to wait those 10hrs. The dot guy told me if I was going to a military show or something like that that I would be exempt from those requirements. My finickey lights all worked when he did the inspection which was a relief. I didnt take any pics until I got home.
Ross/Nebraska

 

[ida34]

Most farm exceptions to the CDL requirement have a restriction on how far from the farm you can be. It is 120 or 150 miles here in Michigan if I remember correctly.

 

[bulldog_mack13]

Is that the 818 that had thumper on it? I drove yours and another and I cant figure out which one you had.

Sorry to hear about the trip , they sound like any other LEO that makes the law what he thinks it is or the DMV for that matter

 

[poppop]

Its 150 in Ga. But South Carolina is only 50 miles from my farm and they don't honor that. I take a chance every time I go to Fort Jackson for a pick-up because I am suppossed to have a CDL to drive my one ton and pull my 37 foot gooseneck. Its small roads all the way so very seldom see DOT. I do put my farm plackards on the door to identify the truck as a farm truck but that may not help in Carolina. Here in Ga. I have been waved in at inspections and released as soon as they found out I was a farmer.

 

[reb87]

Im not sure what you mean by thumper. Mine had the lower miles of the two and I think the other had a flashing light on the top. It was gone by the time I got my euc back.

 

[bulldog_mack13]

It had a name painted on it that said Thumper. But I think it was the one with the light now.

You got a real good truck! - Jay

 

[jwaller]

I have a feeling that as more and more of these trucks get out we are going to start hearing lots more of these stories as I don't think anybody here is perfectly legal including me.

 

[ida34]

The problem was having the farm plates. Farm plates pretty much says you use the truck for the farm and that means making money with it. This means you would be considered a commercial operator. The Farm plates fall into an exception to having to have the CDL and commercial plates. As long as you are not operating commercially you would be just fine in most states but the Farm plates negate that an chance of you saying you were not operating to make money. I am not saying you will not run into an officer that may not know the correct interpretation of the CDL laws but you would be able to win in court. I would have to look it up but I think the distance restriction in Michigan only works as long as you do not try to cross state lines. Once you do then you must comply with all commercial operator requirements. I know I am perfectly legal because I only use my truck to move my stuff (not stuff I am selling). I see the guy selling mules at shows an such and he had a regular tractor trailer with the mules on it but has a declaration on the side of the truck saying the truck is not for hire and for private use only. I can't remember the exact wording but if I saw it while I was working I would write them for not having a CDL and not having all of his commercial paperwork in order. He may have a CDL and such but he did not have any DOT numbers on the truck and he did not have his company name and location. Commercial trucks must have the company name and location (city and state) on the both sides of the truck. They guy is moving the mules to sell at shows and hits a lot of shows. He is obviously doing this to make money and that makes him a commercial operator. The people running the ragged edge like this are the ones that will make it harder on those of us using our trucks for our own uses. It is a fine line between taking some stuff to the show to sell and operating commercially. If I am just taking a few extra parts I have to a show to try to make some fuel money then I may not be considered a commercial operator. This is clearly not the same as a guy hauling 10K lbs of scrap metal every month to the scrap man. At any rate I am now off my soapbox.

Reb,
If I were you I might try to go to court pleading you case with your local CDL exceptions showing you were fully compliant. If it looks like you were not compliant then just pay it and go on. You may at least get some of the charges on the ticket dropped. I have not seen it for sure to tell you but I think that farm exceptions do not work when going across state lines. If I knew the exact statute I would post if for you but I don't know exactly where to look. At any rate, good luck. My comments above were not directed toward you. I think you were really confused not trying to dodge the requirements.

Chuck

 

[rosco]

Re: Farm Tags

Only a few places give me receprocity for farm tags. I can haul my own stuff, purchased, or for sale, but I cannot haul "for hire". Otherwise, I have to comply with all the rest of the stuff. The main difference is that farmers cannot haul for hire. Its always safest to have a log book.

Lee in Alaska

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

That looks like a 53 footer is it? Did you get the ticket just because the guy was a jerk? I would have been pretty upset with this since it is legally registed and you were doing farm business. I think it might be time to appeal it with the local representative. That is a great looking truck how well did it pull that big trailer and do you plan on pulling it full with that truck?

Also what brand muffler is that and does it still have the one lower inside the frame rail?

 

[98hd]

Re: RE: M818 trip

The problem was having the farm plates. Farm plates pretty much says you use the truck for the farm and that means making money with it. This means you would be considered a commercial operator. The Farm plates fall into an exception to having to have the CDL and commercial plates. As long as you are not operating commercially you would be just fine in most states but the Farm plates negate that an chance of you saying you were not operating to make money. I am not saying you will not run into an officer that may not know the correct interpretation of the CDL laws but you would be able to win in court. I would have to look it up but I think the distance restriction in Michigan only works as long as you do not try to cross state lines. Once you do then you must comply with all commercial operator requirements. I know I am perfectly legal because I only use my truck to move my stuff (not stuff I am selling). I see the guy selling mules at shows an such and he had a regular tractor trailer with the mules on it but has a declaration on the side of the truck saying the truck is not for hire and for private use only. I can't remember the exact wording but if I saw it while I was working I would write them for not having a CDL and not having all of his commercial paperwork in order. He may have a CDL and such but he did not have any DOT numbers on the truck and he did not have his company name and location. Commercial trucks must have the company name and location (city and state) on the both sides of the truck. They guy is moving the mules to sell at shows and hits a lot of shows. He is obviously doing this to make money and that makes him a commercial operator. The people running the ragged edge like this are the ones that will make it harder on those of us using our trucks for our own uses. It is a fine line between taking some stuff to the show to sell and operating commercially. If I am just taking a few extra parts I have to a show to try to make some fuel money then I may not be considered a commercial operator. This is clearly not the same as a guy hauling 10K lbs of scrap metal every month to the scrap man. At any rate I am now off my soapbox.

One thing you may need to look into, especially in MI, is if the Non-Commercial operator exception applies in other states. I had read something that stated otherwise, but it wasn't official. I had emailed the WI DOT to see what they had to say, and said I didn't provide enough info and that I would need to contact a local DOT officer.

I do know that if you look at the MI exceptions for a CDl is lists private use. If you look at WI's it does not say that, it says it assumes you are commercial unless you meet one of the other exceptions listed. There is still the question of if it applies across state lines.

 

[ida34]

RE: Re: RE: M818 trip

Non-commercial would apply because of reciprocity. If I am legal in Michigan then I am legal elsewhere. For an example, in the past Tennessee did nor require a plate or registration for non-commercial, non-rv type trailers. When a Tennessee plated vehicle towed a non registered trailer in Michigan they were not breaking the law since they were legal for their home state. Also, Michigan requires a driver to show proof of insurance when stopped. This does not apply to out of state people since some states do not require a person to show proof of insurance. There are still officers in my department that occasionally write an out of state person for not providing proof of insurance but when the court gets the ticket they dismiss it. I have not looked into Wisconsin to tell you for sure. The thing I should tell you is to read the whole law not just excerpt because the pertinent sentence is usually buried under several paragraphs. For the Michigan folks, below is both the Michigan definition of a commercial motor vehicle and requirements for a CDL.

257.7a “Commercial motor vehicle” defined.
Sec. 7a. “Commercial motor vehicle” means a motor vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers,
including the driver; a motor vehicle, having a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds; a motor
vehicle with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more including a towed unit with a gross
vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds; or a motor vehicle carrying hazardous material and on
which is required to be posted a placard as defined and required under 49 C.F.R. parts 100 to 199. A
commercial motor vehicle does not include a vehicle used exclusively to transport personal possessions or
family members for nonbusiness purposes.



257.312e Group commercial motor vehicle designation; tests; holder of unexpired operator's
or chauffeur's license; qualifications and fees for vehicle group designation and
indorsement; F vehicle indorsement; exceptions; former indorsements; requirement for
certain indorsements to operate school bus; waiver of driving skills test; expiration;
disposition of money collected under subsection (; refund to county or municipality;
compliance with §§ 257.303 and 257.319b.
Sec. 312e. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person, before operating a commercial motor
vehicle, shall obtain the required vehicle group designation as follows:
(a) A person, before operating a combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001
pounds or more including a towed vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds,
shall procure a group A vehicle designation on his or her operator's or chauffeur's license. Unless an
indorsement or the removal of restrictions is required, a person licensed to operate a group A vehicle may
operate a group B or C vehicle without taking another test.
(b) A person, before operating a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more,
shall procure a group B vehicle designation on his or her operator's or chauffeur's license. Unless an
indorsement or the removal of restrictions is required, a person licensed to operate a group B vehicle may
operate a group C vehicle without taking another test.
(c) A person, before operating a single vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating under 26,001 pounds
or a vehicle having a gross vehicle weight rating under 26,001 pounds towing a trailer or other vehicle and
carrying hazardous materials on which a placard is required under 49 CFR parts 100 to 199, or designed to
transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, shall procure a group C vehicle designation and a
hazardous material or passenger vehicle indorsement on his or her operator's or chauffeur's license.
(2) An applicant for a vehicle group designation shall take knowledge and driving skills tests that comply
with minimum federal standards prescribed in 49 CFR part 383 as required under this act.
(3) The license shall be issued, suspended, revoked, canceled, or renewed in accordance with this act.
(4) Except as provided in this subsection, all of the following apply:
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Ó Legislative Council, State of Michigan Courtesy of www.legislature.mi.gov
(a) If a person operates a group B passenger vehicle while taking his or her driving skills test for a P
indorsement, he or she is restricted to operating only group B or C passenger vehicles under that P
indorsement. If a person operates a group B school bus while taking his or her driving skills test for an S
indorsement, he or she is restricted to operating only group B or C school buses under that S indorsement.
(b) If a person operates a group C passenger vehicle while taking his or her driving skills test for a P
indorsement, he or she is restricted to operating only group C passenger vehicles under that P indorsement. If
a person operates a group C school bus while taking his or her driving skills test for an S indorsement, he or
she is restricted to operating only group C school buses under that S indorsement.
(c) A person who fails the air brake portion of the written or driving skills test provided under section 312f
or who takes the driving skills test provided under that section in a commercial motor vehicle that is not
equipped with air brakes shall not operate a commercial motor vehicle equipped with air brakes.
(5) A person, before operating a commercial motor vehicle, shall obtain required vehicle indorsements as
follows:
(a) A person, before operating a commercial motor vehicle pulling double trailers, shall procure the
appropriate vehicle group designation and a T vehicle indorsement under this act.
(b) A person, before operating a commercial motor vehicle that is a tank vehicle, shall procure the
appropriate vehicle group designation and an N vehicle indorsement under this act.
(c) A person, before operating a commercial motor vehicle carrying hazardous materials on which a
placard is required under 49 CFR parts 100 to 199, shall procure the appropriate vehicle group designation
and an H vehicle indorsement under this act.
(d) A person, before operating a commercial motor vehicle that is a tank vehicle carrying hazardous
material, shall procure the appropriate vehicle group designation and both an N and H vehicle indorsement,
which shall be designated by the code letter X on the person's operator's or chauffeur's license.
(e) A person, before operating a vehicle that is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the
driver but is not a school bus shall procure the appropriate vehicle group designation and a P vehicle
indorsement under this act. An applicant for a P vehicle indorsement shall take the driving skills test in a
vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver.
(f) Effective October 1, 2004, a person who does not currently possess a P indorsement, before operating a
school bus designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, shall procure the appropriate
vehicle group designation, pass the knowledge tests for the P and S indorsements, and procure the P and S
vehicle indorsements under this act. An applicant for an S vehicle indorsement shall take a driving skills test
in a school bus designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, that represents the same
type of vehicle that the applicant intends to operate as a school bus.
(g) Effective October 1, 2005, a person who currently possesses a P indorsement, before operating a school
bus designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, shall procure the appropriate vehicle
group designation, pass the knowledge test for an S indorsement, and procure an S vehicle indorsement under
this act. An applicant for an S vehicle indorsement shall take a driving skills test in a school bus designed to
transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, that represents the same type of vehicle that the
applicant intends to operate as a school bus.
(6) Until September 30, 2005, the secretary of state may waive the driving skills test for an applicant for an
S indorsement if the applicant certifies, and the secretary of state verifies, that during the 2-year period
immediately prior to applying for the school bus indorsement the applicant met all of the following
conditions:
(a) The applicant holds a valid driver license with a vehicle group designation and a P indorsement.
(b) The applicant has not had an operator's, chauffeur's, or commercial motor vehicle driver license
suspended, revoked, denied, or canceled.
(c) The applicant has not been disqualified by the United States secretary of transportation from operating
a commercial motor vehicle.
(d) The applicant has not been convicted of any disqualifying offense listed in 49 CFR 383.51(b) while
operating a commercial motor vehicle.
(e) The applicant has not been convicted of any disqualifying offense listed in 49 CFR 383.51(b) while
operating a noncommercial motor vehicle that would be a disqualifying offense under 49 CFR 383.51(b) if
the applicant had committed the offense while operating a commercial motor vehicle.
(f) The applicant has not had more than 1 conviction for a serious traffic violation as defined in 49 CFR
383.51 while operating any type of motor vehicle.
(g) Except for parking violations, the applicant has not had any conviction for a violation of any state or
local motor vehicle traffic control law involving a vehicle accident and has not been found at fault in a vehicle
accident.
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Ó Legislative Council, State of Michigan Courtesy of www.legislature.mi.gov
(h) The applicant has been regularly employed as a school bus driver for the past 2 years and has, for those
2 years, operated a school bus representing the type of school bus that the applicant intends to operate, and the
applicant provides satisfactory evidence of that employment to the secretary of state.
(7) An applicant for an indorsement shall take the knowledge and driving skills tests described and
required pursuant to 49 CFR part 383.
( The holder of an unexpired operator's or chauffeur's license may be issued a vehicle group designation
and indorsement valid for the remainder of the license upon meeting the qualifications of section 312f and
payment of the original vehicle group designation fee of $25.00 and an indorsement fee of $5.00 per
indorsement, and a corrected license fee of $18.00. A person required to procure an F vehicle indorsement
pursuant to subsection (10) shall pay an indorsement fee of $5.00.
(9) Except as otherwise provided in subsections (10) and (11), this section does not apply to a driver or
operator of a vehicle under all of the following conditions:
(a) The vehicle is controlled and operated by a farmer or an employee or family member of the farmer.
(b) The vehicle is used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, farm supplies, or a combination
of these items, to or from a farm.
(c) The vehicle is not used in the operation of a common or contract motor carrier.
(d) The vehicle is operated within 150 miles of the farm.
(10) A person, before driving or operating a combination of vehicles having a gross vehicle weight rating
of 26,001 pounds or more on the power unit that is used as described in subsection (9)(a) to (d), shall obtain
an F vehicle indorsement. The F vehicle indorsement shall be issued upon successful completion of a
knowledge test only.
(11) A person, before driving or operating a single vehicle truck having a gross vehicle weight rating of
26,001 pounds or more or a combination of vehicles having a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or
more on the power unit that is used as described in subsection (9)(a) to (d) for carrying hazardous materials on
which a placard is required under 49 CFR parts 100 to 199, shall successfully complete both a knowledge test
and a driving skills test. Upon successful completion of the knowledge test and driving skills test, the person
shall be issued the appropriate vehicle group designation and any vehicle indorsement necessary under this
act.
(12) This section does not apply to a police officer operating an authorized emergency vehicle or to a
firefighter operating an authorized emergency vehicle who has met the driver training standards of the
Michigan fire fighters' training council.
(13) This section does not apply to a person operating a motor home or a vehicle used exclusively to
transport personal possessions or family members for nonbusiness purposes.
(14) The money collected under subsection ( for a vehicle group designation or indorsement shall be
deposited in the state treasury to the credit of the general fund. The secretary of state shall refund out of the
fees collected to each county or municipality acting as an examining officer or examining bureau $3.00 for
each applicant examined for a first designation or indorsement to an operator's or chauffeur's license and
$1.50 for each renewal designation or indorsement to an operator's or chauffeur's license, whose application
is not denied, on the condition that the money refunded shall be paid to the county or local treasurer and is
appropriated to the county, municipality, or officer or bureau receiving that money for the purpose of carrying
out this act.
(15) Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, a person operating a vehicle described in
subsections (9) and (10) is subject to the provisions of sections 303 and 319b.

 

[rtjraleigh]

RE: Re: RE: M818 trip

now i know how you feel. its funny trying to watch cops try to find the vin and how to process it. it took a little time. retards. rob