MEP-002A synchronization question

[jxm1092]

Hey guys,

New to the forum but I have a question regarding the MEP-002A generator. I'm looking to hook it up with a synchronizer much like this one (see pg. 4 no. 1). I'm curious if this is possible with this generator. The connections I would have to make are to the govenor and the voltage regulator. If not then I'm assuming I would have (or am I able to?) retrofit it with the proper equipment to use the synchronizer. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Triple Jim]

The MEP-002A uses a mechanical governor, so there is no way for the synchronizer to tell it what to do. You'd have to come up with an electric governor for the generator that's compatible with the synchronizer. Also, the regulator is not designed to take signals from the synchronizer, so again, you'd have to design a way to do that, by either modifying the existing regulator or by designing a new one, or possibly by adapting a different regulator to the generator. Anything can be done, but I have a feeling in this case it would be a large project.

 

[jxm1092]

Do you know of another military generator that wouldn't require such a major overhaul to integrate the synchronizer?

 

[Triple Jim]

Sorry, I do not. My experience is limited to the MEP-002A and 003A, but I'm sure others here will help shortly. I have a faint memory about one of the larger ones that has the ability built in, but that was to synch to another similar generator. I don't know if it applied to synching to the grid or not.

 

[jxm1092]

It would really be for synching to 120VAC source not necessarily the grid, but an off grid 120V power system. Thank you for your help Jim hopefully someone has some recommendations for me.

 

[leedawg]

Yeah They can all sync already its built into the Mep 004 and up. There are synchronizing lights and everything built into the control panel. You just hook the appropirate cables between the units as the TM explains and off ya go.

In my opinion this sounds like a pain in the Arse so why not just buy a bigger gen set if you need more power. They actually get cheaper as they get bigger LOL.

Lee

 

[jxm1092]

I'm not looking to go over 5kW unfortunately. Its a research project so I'm trying to be pretty specific to what generator I want. Thank you for that advice though.

 

[leedawg]

Do you know of another military generator that wouldn't require such a major overhaul to integrate the synchronizer?

Ah from this post you made it sound like whatever other one out there... LOL

Any way your in for a major overhaul on either the 002 or the 003. That being said I actually made an electronic governor for the 003. I used a hitorque futaba metal gear servo and an atmel micro to drive it. Well its sort of a gov. I have a micro that automatically starts up the 003 when the power drops out and I did not want to have to still go out and make sure that the hz is up to 60 once it is running. So I have a servo on the throttle that brings it up to 60hz. I have not quite gotton all the bugs out of the system yet still playing around with the software trying to adjust the gain some with some more averaging functions so it does not hunt as much. I really need to figure out a better way of measuring the AC fq right now im using an optocoupler that I made from a transformer to an ifered led with diodes to get half the square wave then that goes to a photo transistor into an anaolog comperator. The other issue with the atmel is floating point math is very expensive on an 8 bit comptuer for clock cycles so I find even at 14mhz im having a hard time keeping up with the readings from the comperator triggering interrupts and then comparing to the timer one value. THen that changing the PWM on the timer 2 to drive the servo...

Any way sounds like you have a fun project ahead of you... Lots of custom work is going to have to be done to sync this thing up with another unit. And dont forget your going to have to figure out how to control the voltage regs on both units so one is slaved to the other to keep consistant voltage, and your going to have to figure out how to put safeties into both of them so they can either drop off line if one has a motor problem or shut both of them down other wise your generator will turn into an electric motor and keep driving the internal combustion engine this would be very bad if say one of the motors lost oil pressure or was overheating or something and if somehow it threw a rod it would cold stop the gen head which would in turn pretty much destroy the other unit cause it would try to cold stop it when the electric load shifts over to that head. All kinds of fun issues to think about.

I think reverse engineering even the 004 and up would be a major PITA the documentation on how it actually works is not that good so unless your a EE with a lot of circuit design would take awhile to deduce how the slaved voltage regs and all that other stuff works through the two remote cables that are supposed to be hooked up. Let us know what you end up doing though love hearing bout this kind of stuff.

Lee

 

[jxm1092]

So to avoid having to check frequency and such every time it would start up that's why it would be integrated with a synchrotact. The synchro combined with the electronic governor would allow us to make frequency adjustments in the even that it gets out of whack. Same thing goes for voltage if we get an AVR retrofitted to the generator as well. In addition to the synchro everything is going to be monitored and controlled by a PLC so in the event of a long frequency issue we just shut down the gen set and send out a flag or something along those lines. I've found some companies that have electro-mechanic governors like this one where you basically set the existing mechanical governor to the maximum speed and then the add on controls speed from there with an actuator to the fuel. Of course its no longer made though so I'm looking around for something similar.

 

[rickf]

Wow, I am subscribing to this one. This looks like it is going to be a fun project to watch. I wish I had the time and knowledge to tackle something like this.

 

[jxm1092]

I haven't acquired a generator yet, but can anyone tell me what the make and model of the engine on these generators is? Thanks guys.

 

[Ken_86gt]

I am curius why you would want to sync such a small generator to another bus. If you are just trying to do peak shaving for some reason I don't think it would be economical until you get into very large sets- and none of the smaller military ones can do this without a lot of re-engineering.

If you are just trying to switch a 5kw load from one generator to another a simple break before make transfer switch would be the simplest and I would not bother with sync lights or anything- this depends on what kind of load you are transferring.

Also- while the MEP-004 and up do have sync lights, they are not set up for what you want- you would have to get into the Precise line of generators such as the MEP105.

 

[jxm1092]

Utilizing this generator has more to do with a micro-grid approach and a proof of concept. There is no need to start with a 15kW generator or more when the ability to do what we are researching won't work. So you start small and then apply working concepts to larger projects. In the end it is mainly for load support in addition to a renewable resource and energy storage system when those sources can not provide enough power to support the load.

 

[Ken_86gt]

There is a document that contains many of the current generator specs, including the engines used: search for this, it has been posted here on SS previously somewhere MIL-HDBK-633A.pdf

 

[Triple Jim]

Go for it with an 002A. If this is a project, get a servo or stepper and a microcontroller and start programming. No doubt it would be fun, and when it's done, you'll have the ability to connect to your microgrid without having to get an expensive synchronizer. If I can help with programming ideas, I will. I did some programming for a control system a while back, and it worked well: http://www.google.com/patents/US5110310 Leedawg has obviously had some experience too, and I'm sure others here have as well.

 

[LMT19]

Hi Lee,
I am new to 002A/003A but will get one used soon over the govliquidatiom site. It is rated either F7 or B4. I wonder if you can tell me, based on your experiences, it is worth orr just purchase on over ebay in higher cost?
Thanks,
Larry

 

[jxm1092]

So I looked through the MIL-HDBK-633A document and there is nothing about the specific engine make and model of the MEP-002A generator. The info was on pg. 118 of that document. Does someone own one of these generators and possibly know if the engine has a label plate or anything on it that states this information?

 

[Triple Jim]

I believe the generator is similar to an Onan DJE, and the engine is an Onan model 3413. This is from searching this board.

 

[jxm1092]

Thanks for the help Jim

 

[rickf]

Hi Lee,
I am new to 002A/003A but will get one used soon over the govliquidatiom site. It is rated either F7 or B4. I wonder if you can tell me, based on your experiences, it is worth orr just purchase on over ebay in higher cost?
Thanks,
Larry

Larrry, You might be better off opening a new thread instead of jumping in the middle of this one. You will get more answers that way.

Rick