MEP-003A Will Not Start - Need Mechanic- Chicago Area

[jjayala]

We have an MEP-003A generator and we are looking for a mechanic that has experience with these anywhere near Chicago.

We've tried a diesel mechanic who can't seem to figure out and we've been chasing our tails with this thing. First we were told it was just air in the fuel lines, then the starter, now seems to be something new every day. This generator ran 6-9 months for us without a hitch last year and now we just need someone that really knows this type of equipment for the right diagnosis. HELP!

So any mechanics near the Chicago area please give us a call 312.622.7520

Thank you for any help!!!

 

[gimpyrobb]

HAve you checked that the pluger is retracting?

 

[JimH]

There is one simple thing you can try, which is what Gimpy is trying to tell you. There is a shutoff solenoid, which shuts off the fuel to the engine when you turn it off. It is right next to the injection pump, in the area above the oil filter. Make sure the linkage is all the way up, that allows fuel to flow. Diesel engines in principle are pretty simple. Fresh fuel may help as well. There are a lot of guys on this board who know a lot, and there is a lot of information stored here that you can search. Good Luck!

 

[steelandcanvas]

Can't find help? Find out what's wrong. Here's some TM's to look at, you'll find a cure there. Some of the other genset Gurus might chime in to analyze your problem. Good luck!

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/generator-electrical-tms/77624-tms-generators.html

 

[coyote62ny]

sounds like the fuel shutoff solenoid is not pulling away from the injector pump linkagewhen you turn on the master switch the solenoid should be free from the throttle linkage. if it is not you are not getting fuel.if this is the case try to hold the plunger up then try to start it also make shure your throttle linkage is free and not binding some place if it is free it up so it moves fairly easy. are you getting any smoke? if not you are not getting fuel . also these sets wont start with out the glow plugs and intake heaters you may want to check these as well keep us posted on your progress.

 

[OD_Coyote]

If there is no white smoke coming out of the exhaust when trying to start it I would agree with the fuel shutoff solinoid mentioned in several responses above.

 

[jjayala]

Update:

Spoke with Coyote62 (thanks for calling and he offered some tips which we will try.

I'm at the point where we are going to try working on it ourselves. The previous mechanic removed the starter without labeling any of the leads coming from the battery or control box. I looked at page with the wiring diagram section 4-27, figure 4-18 on the techical manual and it list the numbers of the cables:
P55B10
P55Y2N
P50A10
K51B12

But the manual does not tell you where these leads originate or terminate on the control box. Before I dig any deeper, I want to verify that the starter is wired correctly. Can anyone post any pictures or information?

Problem we have is that the mechanic had us purchase anew $400 starter and is now telling us we need another starter because the new one is bad too!? When he was installing the new starter, I noticed it was not labled or written down and he was swapping around cables and leads to get it to start several times. This concerns me quite a bit and I want to verify this before moving forward.

Starter clicks loudly and solenoid engages but it does not seem to engage the flywhell. Every once in a while you hear a grinding sound. Same happens with the new and old starter.

 

[jjayala]

There is one simple thing you can try, which is what Gimpy is trying to tell you. There is a shutoff solenoid, which shuts off the fuel to the engine when you turn it off. It is right next to the injection pump, in the area above the oil filter. Make sure the linkage is all the way up, that allows fuel to flow. Diesel engines in principle are pretty simple. Fresh fuel may help as well. There are a lot of guys on this board who know a lot, and there is a lot of information stored here that you can search. Good Luck!

Hi Jim,

Yes, I can hear and physically see that switch pull in and allows the fuel switch to move in relationship to the mechanical or spring governor. Main problem as you'll see in my previous post is that the mechanic may have wired the starter in correctly as it was not labeled. I can't figure out the leads from what I can see in the technical manual.

 

[jjayala]

Update to the Starter Wiring:

I have confirmed that we have the wiring done correctly. It was difficult, but following the schematics we found the cannon connector and traced the leads back to the proper terminals on the solenoid switch and starter.

---------------------------

Now we're at the same point this morning, can't get the unit to start. I found elsewhere that others have found a starter lock out switch to be the problem. The old starter grinds and I can hear it spinning but not engaging. The new starter occasionally engages and get's hot but does not always spin or hear the sound.

What can we try next?

I adjusted the lockout switch and disconnected it to bypass, no luck.

 

[coyote62ny]

jjayala have you tryed to turn the engine by hand with a ratchet through the fan guard just to make shure it hasnt siezed up. just a thought.

 

[Speddmon]

If the old starter is grinding and not engaging, and the new one occationally engages it sounds like there is a problem with the ring gear on the flywheel to start with. Next, the starter lockout switch will keep the starter from even trying to turn on...so bypassing it for the purposes of troubleshooting was a good idea.

You said your new starter get's hot and does not always spin? I think I would try like coyote suggested and see if you can make the engine turn over with a ratchet. Sure sounds like something is locking up on you

 

[jjayala]

Here's what I've tried so far:

I removed the starter and tested directly to the battery. Both the new and old spin and actuate the gear into position. Both seems to be operating. The new one seems a little smoother versus the old one.

I greased the gears and shaft that it slides on the starter lightly.

I tried moving with a ratchet and socket the blower fan but was unable to turn the fan with a lot of force.

With the starter motor off, and a pry bar on the flywheel, I can move the flywheel with medium force. I made an entire revolution with some force.

With the starter greased and two new semi truck batteries from Autozone (950 Cranks Amps Each with ~200 of reserve) I reassembled everything. When I cranked it, the first couple of cranks resulted in grinding. After a few more cranks you can hear it engage but then the units just "clanks" pretty loudly.

... if I watch the blower fan, you can see it move very slightly everytime I engage the starter, but upon release, it goes right back. The movement is slight but it seems the starter does not have enough torque or power to try the flywheel.

Is there such a thing as vapor lock or fuel lock in the cylinders that could be causing this?

 

[Speddmon]

Yes, you can have a hydrolock situation that would cause the motor to not turn, but you said you already made a complete revolution with the prybar/ratchet so that is not an issue.

Something is going on with your motor or the generator head that is locking things up on you. You should need virtually no force to move the flywheel with a bar just due to the leverage you have. And turning the engine with a ratchet from the blower wheel should have only needed medium to a very light medium force to make the engine turn.

 

[coyote62ny]

as we talked about on the phone that mechanic should have never used either on the gen set that said. i suppose it could be a hydro lock of some sort . i never asked you do you have stack pipes on the exaust going straight up or does it just stick out over the batteries. if you had stacks on the exaust and no rain caps the cylinders could be hydro locked with water. speddmon correct me if i am wrong but you should be able to turn that engine over with a 1/2 drive ratchet at least i can mine but it does require some effort when you get to the compression stroke. could the other guy that worked on the set droped a bolt or something into the bell housing causing it to turn hard? the only way to tell if any fuel or water is in the cylinders would be to remove the injectors or glow plugs. unless speddmon has another way that would be less work.are you shure those batteries are fully charged just because they are new dont mean they are charged i would charge they just to be shure. you will have to take the cable that connects the two together off and charge them one at a time unless you have a 24 volt charger. wish i was a lot closer to you i would come over and give you a hand . keepus posted on your progress.

 

[Speddmon]

speddmon correct me if i am wrong but you should be able to turn that engine over with a 1/2 drive ratchet at least i can mine but it does require some effort when you get to the compression stroke.

Yes, you should be able to turn it over with a 1/2" ratchet. You should even be able to get by the compression stroke with a little effort.

I see you said the other "mechanic" used ether on the engine??? If he sprayed the ether in it before it was cranking he could have done some serious damage. Like broken pistons or broken rings.

Sadly, I'm afraid after reading that last post you may have to pull the heads and check some things out. That engine should not be that hard to turn.

 

[jjayala]

THOUGHT!

One thing I forgot to mention, the other mechanic broke the plastic linkage that attaches the governor to the fuel injector pump. He had a wire holding open to full throttle! I removed this wire cable and replaced the plastic linkage with a metal one that I found on another post, that was purchase at CarQuest. I adjusted to about the same length as the original setting, but no doubt I will have to further adjust this later.

One thing I noticed is that the governor holds up the fuel throttle to about 1/4 of the way open, hard to tell. The wire the mechanic had on the system had this this fully opened to the max! He basically had a wire coming from the intake manifold holding the ball joint where the linkage would hook upto. Reading all this about "hydrolocked" and fuel lock, would this have caused the system to flood with too much fuel?!
I've heard people talk about "wet-stacking", but would a bunch of fuel cause the same thing to happen?

Is this possible?
Could I possible fix this by unscrewing something and allowing a port to drain this out?
Do I need to light the fuel on fire inside the cylinder?
What exactly do I remove, loosen or take off to try and turn it over and release any lock in the system?

 

[coyote62ny]

the only things you can remove to let fuel or air out of the cylinders is the injectors or the glow plugs . the glow plugs will come out hard or possabilly break off in the head not good. so if i had to choose i would remove the injectors. either is a bad thing on these sets and could have caused real damage. also the throttle wired wide open is also not good.

 

[Speddmon]

even with the throttle wide open, you should not be hydro-locked from that. Even if the fuel pumps were left running they would NEVER pump enough pressure to pop open an injector and fill the cylinder with fuel.

I would use the prybar and rotate the engine through 3 more complete revolutions and that will eliminate any chance of a hydrolock. It can only be hydrolocked if a cylinder is full of liuid and you try to compress the liquid with both valves closed. By rotating the engine through 4 complete revolutions you are going through a compression stroke on each cylinder. If you can do that you are not hydrolocked.

I still maintain that the ether the guy used might have damaged something in the engine and I doubt your are suffering from hydrolock.

 

[storeman]

I assume you had been watching oil pressure (30 or more) when the unit was running.

 

[ranchhopper]

Where are you located near chicago I am 30 miles west and have a MEP 003 here I got running I may be able to help out.