I just got a mep-005 genset and was playing around with it a little and when I set the rpm to adjust frequency after it ran for 10 min it raised up to 62 when I readjusted it down then when I put a load on it it went from 57 to 61 back and forth. the feq adjust knob below the gauge does not seem to change anything. any help would be appreciated.
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mep-005 frequency ?
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Ken_86gt
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The freq adjust knob on the gage panel does not do anything if you have the utility model generator. You adjust the frequency with the big black knob below the panel. Follow the cable from the injector pump to see where it is.
Isaac-1
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If your interested in upgrading your utility grade MEP-005 to Precision grade, someone was selling the upgrade kits on ebay a while back with multiple available, not sure if they are still doing it.
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That won't hurt anything unless you plan on powering sensitive electronics.
PeterD
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Generally all consumer goods will withstand a 10% variation without any problems and most can run from about 47 to 64 Hz by design.
I do get the impression from your message that it is hunting however, which would indicate a potential issue with the governor in the injection pump.
It isn't unusual to see a variation of between 58 and 61 between full load and no load.
I do get the impression from your message that it is hunting however, which would indicate a potential issue with the governor in the injection pump.
It isn't unusual to see a variation of between 58 and 61 between full load and no load.
Isaac-1
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A good mechanically governed generator should be fine for almost all modern household needs, most modern electronic items use switch mode power supplies which are not very sensitive to frequency. Older electronics tended to be more sensitive to the issue, as well as some types of industrial control systems, ferroresonant industrial battery chargers come to mind as an example even a 1 hz frequency shift could change their charging voltage. One other advantage of electronic governors is they are quicker to respond when a large load is added to the generator and don't tend to drag the engine down as much, again not likely to be a big issue around a house on a MEP-005. If you are still interested in upgrading, I would suggest looking into a newer electronic governor system, the original style unit is big and clunky (the original electronic controller is shoe box sized, modern governor controllers are about the size of a pack of playing cards and are very reliable) Feel free to PM me on the subject if you want more info I have upgraded one mechanical governor to electronic.
Ike
Ike
bambambam22
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Maybe it would be better if I just tell you guys the problem. I have a Mechanic working on the generator updating it to common parts and removing the military specific parts. Everything was working great and all the changes were working great and all of a sudden it will not store a magnetic field. Or something like that. It will not tell it’s self to start making electricity unless he uses a 9 volt battery to excite something but when he uses the 9 volt battery everything works just like it is suppose to. but he said something about it not storing the magnetic charge that it needs to excite the field and I have no idea what he is talking about but I do know right now I have a 3000lb paperweight and everything I have put in it to buy it ship it and rebuild it to make it work better but instead it does not work at all. Does any of this make any sense? Please help maybe someone could give me there phone number and I can pass it to the mechanic and you could help him figure it out. He says it is something simple that he is overlooking or does not know about the military application. He is a good mechanic and a good guy but I am up a creek right now. He just placed the 6 diodes in the back which he thought that was the problem but it did not fix it. If any of this makes any sense please let me contact you for help. My name is Rick Steen and I live in Amarillo Texas and my email address is bambam@suddenlinkmail.com and my numbers are 806-622-1259 shop / 806-674-6502 cell / 806-622-8067 home. If you can not help can you please direct me to someone that might be able to?
saddamsnightmare
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March 6th, 2011.
Bambambam22:
The FIRST rule in regards to military surplus is.... If it ain't broke, don't fix it! These machines were designed to survive and operate under conditions that would kill civillian generators, and they are very over built. Primitive yes, but generally they do what they are supposed to. If Uncle had felt that they were worth updating, likely he would have done it. It may be your mechanic let the smoke out of the unit, and chances are you are gonna be either very broke, very aggravated or both before you are done.
If you had wanted a precision generator set, you would have gone out and blown the 20 to 30 K and bought one custom built, but you went surplus and when it was working you decided to tinker with it. When I want specialty hardware, I spend the money to get it custom built, otherwise, Uncle's stuff is good enough for me if it's working when I bought it, and if it isn't I pay less then scrap for it because that's what it's gonna be when the gas wrench gets done with it.
Good luck my friend, you have gone to the zone where no one else has gone before, kinda like Star Trek without Spock, but for myself, I hope you guys can figure out what you did and undo it....
Bambambam22:
The FIRST rule in regards to military surplus is.... If it ain't broke, don't fix it! These machines were designed to survive and operate under conditions that would kill civillian generators, and they are very over built. Primitive yes, but generally they do what they are supposed to. If Uncle had felt that they were worth updating, likely he would have done it. It may be your mechanic let the smoke out of the unit, and chances are you are gonna be either very broke, very aggravated or both before you are done.
If you had wanted a precision generator set, you would have gone out and blown the 20 to 30 K and bought one custom built, but you went surplus and when it was working you decided to tinker with it. When I want specialty hardware, I spend the money to get it custom built, otherwise, Uncle's stuff is good enough for me if it's working when I bought it, and if it isn't I pay less then scrap for it because that's what it's gonna be when the gas wrench gets done with it.
Good luck my friend, you have gone to the zone where no one else has gone before, kinda like Star Trek without Spock, but for myself, I hope you guys can figure out what you did and undo it....
bambambam22
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Kick me in the head. He made it sound so good and like he really knew what he was talking about. I should have known. It worked just fine and he told me that if it ever broke it would be really hard to get parts to fix it so it would be best to change them out before it actually need it and I fell for it Kick me in the head twice.
Isaac-1
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Ok, lets see if we can get you back on track without breaking the bank, I am no expert on the MEP-005 by any means, just have a passing idea of how they are set up from reading the tech manual when I was considering buying one a couple of years ago.
What has he done so far?
What parts of the control system has he replaced, and more importantly what did he replace them with, in particular what has he done with the voltage regulation system.
Ike
What has he done so far?
What parts of the control system has he replaced, and more importantly what did he replace them with, in particular what has he done with the voltage regulation system.
Ike
bambambam22
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I will get you that information tomorrow from him that way I am not passing on bad information. Thank you very much for at least attempting!!!! I very much appriciate it.
Ken_86gt
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Sounds like you got some questionable advice. Tell him he has to make it right- either put it all back or finish the conversion. Unfortunately you now have a custom generator and we don't know about how it was done or what he did. And next time start a new thread for this.
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These generators are self exciting meaning that use their own voltage produced to excite the field of the generator so they keep producing electricity...kinda like a loop.
I don't know specifically about the MEP-005, but on the 003's they give the field a "flash" of DC each time it starts to help kick-start the voltage generation. There is also a manual "flash" option built in to hit it again with DC if it doesn't start producing right off the bat. I assume yours HAD that feature built in originally, but who knows now.
Anyway, for my 2 cents, I would be willing to be he somehow disabled the initial field flash at start-up. If he can find out what he screwed up and put that back in, you should be good.
I don't know specifically about the MEP-005, but on the 003's they give the field a "flash" of DC each time it starts to help kick-start the voltage generation. There is also a manual "flash" option built in to hit it again with DC if it doesn't start producing right off the bat. I assume yours HAD that feature built in originally, but who knows now.
Anyway, for my 2 cents, I would be willing to be he somehow disabled the initial field flash at start-up. If he can find out what he screwed up and put that back in, you should be good.
saddamsnightmare
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March 7th, 2011.
BamBamBam22:
I think the guys up above have hit on something, either your mech needs to trace back the steps to where he disconnected the auto excite circuit and attempt to reconnect it, or he needs to continue and rengineer the unit to the max. The problem when you try to upgrade these military generator sets is that you do get into a grey area where we can't help you, because all our knowledge and manuals are for the as built units. The thing about Army gensets, is they are designed to operate under heavy loads in adverse situations for days on end, much like railroad gensets. I have a 30/37KW diesel genset specifically built to power a railroad dining car at 80-85-90% load, 24 hours a day for weeks on end. It's 1 in 12 capacity was 37KW to kick large AC and reefer units. When I bought in 1986, it cost close to $10K, and it still does its job twenty four years later. Most civillian units are not overbuilt this way, and they generally can't stand the punishment and keep on going.
What I meant to say is, if it was running and working within the design specs, you probably should have let it go on that way. The rule of thumb is, if it ain't broke don't fix it, the second rule of thumb is throw out the engineer or mechanic who can't read rule number 1...... Most of our Army's machinery, at least prior to the last five years or so, was generally designed to operate under real world conditions that would give most machinery designers nightmares, and the farther you go back in the true "M" series, the more neolithic they tended to be, for many very good reasons, like GI #1 and GI #2 right off ye old farm.... The Russians designed their stuff even more primitive for the same reason, except their GI's had very little experience with modern machinery..... My hope is your guy gets it straigtened out, or you straighten his wallet out with a sale for original price, parts and labor outta his pocket if it isn't right at the end....
Good luck.
BamBamBam22:
I think the guys up above have hit on something, either your mech needs to trace back the steps to where he disconnected the auto excite circuit and attempt to reconnect it, or he needs to continue and rengineer the unit to the max. The problem when you try to upgrade these military generator sets is that you do get into a grey area where we can't help you, because all our knowledge and manuals are for the as built units. The thing about Army gensets, is they are designed to operate under heavy loads in adverse situations for days on end, much like railroad gensets. I have a 30/37KW diesel genset specifically built to power a railroad dining car at 80-85-90% load, 24 hours a day for weeks on end. It's 1 in 12 capacity was 37KW to kick large AC and reefer units. When I bought in 1986, it cost close to $10K, and it still does its job twenty four years later. Most civillian units are not overbuilt this way, and they generally can't stand the punishment and keep on going.
What I meant to say is, if it was running and working within the design specs, you probably should have let it go on that way. The rule of thumb is, if it ain't broke don't fix it, the second rule of thumb is throw out the engineer or mechanic who can't read rule number 1...... Most of our Army's machinery, at least prior to the last five years or so, was generally designed to operate under real world conditions that would give most machinery designers nightmares, and the farther you go back in the true "M" series, the more neolithic they tended to be, for many very good reasons, like GI #1 and GI #2 right off ye old farm.... The Russians designed their stuff even more primitive for the same reason, except their GI's had very little experience with modern machinery..... My hope is your guy gets it straigtened out, or you straighten his wallet out with a sale for original price, parts and labor outta his pocket if it isn't right at the end....
Good luck.
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This is a stone old thread. BUT, If you can find a kit, very easy.
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You will need these two items:
GENERAC 098647ASRV (98647) GOVERNOR CONTROL KIT, STEPPER
GENERAC G098290 - GOVERNOR STEPPER MOTOR
Attach stepper motor instead of control cable, secure stepper motor to engine, connect controller, start generator and setup controller as per included manual
only drawback, control needs 12 V
Connect with extra switch via inline fuse to jumper between the two batteries
Don’t forget to turn this switch on and off otherwise it will drain the low side battery
this governor system can be used on 004A 005A 006A (system tested on 005A)
possibly on 002A / 003A but such a setup would have to verified by the person who is going to try it
GENERAC 098647ASRV (98647) GOVERNOR CONTROL KIT, STEPPER
GENERAC G098290 - GOVERNOR STEPPER MOTOR
Attach stepper motor instead of control cable, secure stepper motor to engine, connect controller, start generator and setup controller as per included manual
only drawback, control needs 12 V
Connect with extra switch via inline fuse to jumper between the two batteries
Don’t forget to turn this switch on and off otherwise it will drain the low side battery
this governor system can be used on 004A 005A 006A (system tested on 005A)
possibly on 002A / 003A but such a setup would have to verified by the person who is going to try it
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There is also, but very hard to find, a Military kit to do the same.
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Guy,
That’s correct. I haven’t seen one of those Kits in ages. There was never a big surplus auctioned off. They may have gotten scrapped in DMIL in the early 2000’s with the 800 series coming in.
The 1. Generation AMMPS with DCS is being completely replaced by the 2. Generation AMMPS with ADCS. The contract for 2nd generation was awarded in 2019 to Cummings and one other manufacturer (forgot the name)
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The Kit Guy mentioned was based on the GAC AC120 governor actuator and the corresponding Controller
a similar GAC governor is this here as commercial 12V version
Both GAC systems require drilling the bell housing and threading it to accommodate the rpm sensor besides of mounting the actuator
the Generac system has the advantage that it receives the speed signal as high voltage 120 VAC and regulates to Frequency input from generator rather then a feedback of rpm from engine itself.
If the Generac system doesn’t see a voltage / frequency as a result of a failed AVR, then the engine is throttled to minimum speed
a similar GAC governor is this here as commercial 12V version
Both GAC systems require drilling the bell housing and threading it to accommodate the rpm sensor besides of mounting the actuator
the Generac system has the advantage that it receives the speed signal as high voltage 120 VAC and regulates to Frequency input from generator rather then a feedback of rpm from engine itself.
If the Generac system doesn’t see a voltage / frequency as a result of a failed AVR, then the engine is throttled to minimum speed