Newbie Starter problem...

[Joe Gamma]

Because Hill billy's ripped out my cold starter in N Dakota, I give my goat a shot of either to get her going on cold days. AAA Two days ago jumped my goat because it would not start and drained the batterys. They said let it run two hours to recharge the batteries but at 5pm it was not happening due to neighbors. Yesterday I started her and no luck just a click...Today I took both battteries out and recharged them and when I turned the ignition...click and then nothing...my surplus mentor claims a loose connection but what do you guys think...

(sounds like I blew a cylinoid...) is there a connection that habbitually comes loose..?

Thanks again guys I should rename this Newbie with a goat...

Joe

 

[scoutmanadam]

have you checked your batteries to make sure there still good

 

[goat whisperer]

Hi Joe,

when the batteries are in good conditions the magntic switch should pull a gearwheel into the flywheel and let the starter turn it. If you hear just a "klick" the magnetic switch stucks. Try to kick it with a hammer a little bit. Perhaps it gets loose. If not you have to take out the starter, disassemble it and if you are lucky it helps to clean it inside, there might be rust and dirt inside...
(sorry for my english, I hoope you understand what I mean!?)

 

[cranetruck]

Click, click = bad connection(s) or dead battery. Yes, the sillinoid may be bad, but check the easy stuff first. Use a hydrometer to check the battery specific gravity for a real battery check.
Lead acids don't like to be discharged fully, a few deep discharge cycles and they are due for replacement since they will not again hold a full charge...the SG test will tell you.

Edit: Oh yeah, get a block heater and make it easy on the starter/battery this time of the year.

 

[Joe Gamma]

Since it just rained like heck today tommorrow I will just replace the batteries..I wanted to put better ones in anyway. I also have gotton an engine block heater just yesterday. I think the most ominous sigh is suddenlly the voltage gauge just dropped to flatline zero with the click.

Could you still jump a Goat with a bad battery?


Joe

 

[Gamagoat1]

Goat has two solenoid switches. One on the starter, which rarely goes bad. The other is a small one that acts as a switch to activate the other one on the starter. This little one is bolted to the frame support below where the flame start should have been.

Check grounds and connections first. Check batt. condition (Chemically with a hydrometer)

__YES you can jump a Goat with dead batteries. As long as there is no physical damage to the batteries being jumped.________________

You Need The Manuals...

 

[Militoy]

Put a voltmeter directly across the battery terminal posts (not the clamps) of each battery when someone pushes the starter button. If the voltage drops below 9-10 volts while cranking, the issue is the batteries. If the voltage on the batteries stays up but you still get only a "click", the trouble is in the connections. BTW - most of the original style 6TL batteries available to the civilian market are crap. I've gone through 4 sets of different brands in around 6-7 years - with regular maintenance. I would opt for regular HD civilian batteries.

 

[Joe Gamma]

Goat has two solenoid switches. One on the starter, which rarely goes bad. The other is a small one that acts as a switch to activate the other one on the starter. This little one is bolted to the frame support below where the flame start should have been.

Check grounds and connections first. Check batt. condition (Chemically with a hydrometer)

__YES you can jump a Goat with dead batteries. As long as there is no physical damage to the batteries being jumped.________________

You Need The Manuals...

I have the manuals but my goat has been wired for twelve instead of twenty four by the electrical constuction company that bought it surplus..Thats why I throw it out to you guys before I get crazy...

Hey I actually charged both batteries without shocking myself, changed the oil and know when to ask when I don't know what the heck I am doing...I figure I am doing par for the course for a new goat owner!!

Joe

 

[cranetruck]

FWIW, from PS magazine.
Even if the batteries are discharged, leave them in when jump starting, if you have nothing there and remove the jumpers, the alternator regulator will not survive the sudden loss...you may lose other electronics in the process too.

 

[Joe Gamma]

Well the verdicts in from a man far more qualified than me. He came by and tested the batteries and such and everything was fine. He then jumped the starter and it just kept sticking only to be untuck by a few hammer raps. We then took out the starter and found that even though the gamma goat system was rewired to 12 volts and the generator and guages all were twelve volts the original starter was left in at twenty four volts and finnally went bad. I have a new engine comming in the spring for 2 grand so I guess I will throw in a proper 12 volt starter till that time comes...

Certainly learning alot and thanks again for all the help.

Joe

 

[Militoy]

Well the verdicts in from a man far more qualified than me. He came by and tested the batteries and such and everything was fine. He then jumped the starter and it just kept sticking only to be untuck by a few hammer raps. We then took out the starter and found that even though the gamma goat system was rewired to 12 volts and the generator and guages all were twelve volts the original starter was left in at twenty four volts and finnally went bad. I have a new engine comming in the spring for 2 grand so I guess I will throw in a proper 12 volt starter till that time comes...

Certainly learning alot and thanks again for all the help.

Joe

I'm curious whether you bought the vehicle this way, or did you decide on converting to a 12V system yourself for some reason? The 24V components draw half the current - but copper losses in the 24V system wiring are only 1/4 of what they will be with a 12V conversion - as power loss varies with the square of the current drawn. The wire size in a 12V system needs to be 4X the size of that in an equivalent 24V system (6 numeric wire gauges larger) for the same loss. A 10AWG wire in the OEM Gama Goat would have to be swapped to a 4AWG wire to achieve the same efficiency in a 12V system. That's why the engineers chose to go with a 24V system at the outset.

EDIT - oops - reading back, I see you bought the Goat after it had already been "converted". I personally would consider switching back to a 24V system if possible - as the vehicle was originally designed.

 

[Joe Gamma]

Tommorrow people come over to help me replace the starter so that I may rumble around Middleborough once again!!!! Ahahahahah! Ok I will keeep you folks informed...

The starter is def a two man job on a gamma Goat No?

Joe

 

[Gamagoat1]

The only thing that really makes the starter change-out hard is the flame thrower fuel filter hanging down behind it. The fact that yours has been removed will make it a little easier. Just stand on your head and take it out, AFTER, disconnecting both batteries.

 

[Militoy]

Tommorrow people come over to help me replace the starter so that I may rumble around Middleborough once again!!!! Ahahahahah! Ok I will keeep you folks informed...

The starter is def a two man job on a gamma Goat No?

Joe

I haven't found any repair job on the Goat to be more difficult than on any other mil vehicle - except for the issue of difficult access to parts in the lower hull. I did have some trouble swapping out my front diff after it was grenaded by car thieves taking the GG for a joy ride - but the difficulty was 100% in my not noticing the top retaining bolt in the parts manual! Very tough to remove the diff when one bolt is still stubbornly holding it in.

 

[Gamagoat1]

After you've driven it a while, periodicley check those bolts for tightness. They have a tendency to work loose. This was a problem while they were in service.

 

[Jericho]

ooat solinoid and starter change

Hi Joe , ive got two goats, on is a daily driver back and forth to work and ive just put a 400 chevy small block in the other,The solinoid on the goat isnt very reliable if you crank more than a twenty count to start on a regular basis, ive changed mine 3 or 4 times in two years, it is the same solinoid used on most older detroits and any good starter rebuild shop can get one , ususally pay about 80$, there are two types wet and dry , you want the dry, starter change time is about 45 min once you have done it a few times, you can change the soilinoid with the starter installed, just a pain to compress the spring back down, it has an adjustment , turn the main lead stud up or down lateraly and it shifts the "spot" it hits when you pull juice . Iam just up the road from you near Littleton New HAmpshire, have a few spare part and a line on quite a few, thay are actually pretty easy to work on if you have ever worked avation, ive found mine reliable , although not good winter starters, there are a couple of easy solutions around, Hardest thing to find up here is tires, I do know a fella near Lake Champlain who had a full conex of spare parts, havnt spoke to him in a year or so but if your searching for something let me know Email Jetoneusaf@gmail.com

 

[Joe Gamma]

Thanks jerico and if you show me your gaots I will show you mine.....Actually I would love to see your goats because you never know how one goat handles till you drive two...If that makes sence...I have my eye on a hull to actually rubuild minus the trailor...but with no engine the guy (and no title )wants two grand...hasn't rune in 15 years...

 

[Jericho]

hey , joe, your right!, before you spend 2000 $ on just a hull i know where there is was a complete disassembled tractor and trailor , stripped and blasted , ready for a litle tlc, but all the parts were there and i think it was about 2 bills, the fella also had a good supply of spares. hope you got your stater sorted, talk to you later jericho

 

[Joe Gamma]

That would be awesome...I will message you with my email and Phone and would love a call about that Goat....

Thanks again

Joe