Now I did it...

[pah556]

Hi everybody, I think I screwed the starter.
Truck is a former army m884 (or 885, not sure if the cab is original).

Anyway, it has the 318 engine.
I was doing some rewiring under the hood when I bypassed the AMP gauge.

Cut the large black one coming from the alternator, lenghtened it to reach the what I guess is the starter relay wich is mounted on the wheelhousing.

Well anyway, I connected the large black one to the same bolt as the positive wire from the battery, just like the black wire that came out of the firewall.

It´s just that the relay looks like it´s a Ford one (3180465 is stamped on i).
Wich I just googled to be a Ford.

It just feels like I have either overlooked or missed something.
Now it just says one single click when I turn the key to start and the dashlights go dim.

I doesn´t even seem like the starter makes an attempt to turn over.
How do I troubleshoot this on? I do have a DVM to check voltages.

Is there a way to check this relay (what should be pos. neg. when should there be power on the different bolts on the relay)?

It has two larger bolts (one on each side), and two smaller ones on top.

Thanks, and don´t bother mention Autozone or any other US parts chain, since I´m in Europe.
I know a few places here in Sweden that have moparts if needed.

 

[porkysplace]

On a ford starter rely the 2 large post on sides are for battery cables , one of the 2 posts on top should be a hot wire from the key switch ( this usually has a small s by it ) the other post is rarely used .

Edit; the rely grounds through the bolts , hot cable from battery to rely , other cable rely to starter . The hot wire from key switch closes the rely to crank starter.

 

[pah556]

Ok, I´ll see what I can find out and see if it works, the previous owner(s) left a few other relays behind this one but they are not connected anymore.
I guess they died and they didn´t bother to even remove them...

 

[pah556]

Well I could be a bit dumb here, but does anybody know on this Ford starter relays what is what?
I know one of the bigger bolts on the side is for the batt. connection.
When you try to start the engine with one starter cable on the positive batt. post, where do you put the other end, ignition is on.
I tried on the big bolt on the opposite side, where the large black cable goes to the starter but nothing happens only a click from the relay.
Thanks if anyone can help me out here.

 

[6x6TRex]

Post a picture of what you have, then we can tell you how to wire it.

 

[N1265]

Current is designed to flow both ways threw that wire
( orginaly should be red from the amp gage to the relay), by disconnecting the orginal wire from the starting relay I dont see how you are getting power from the battery to the fuse box. Also by cutting the black wire before the welded splice in the dash, I don't see how you will get power to the fuse box , from the alternator when the truck is running.

One of the big lugs goes to the battery, The other big lug goes to the starter, the two smaller posts are "trigger" posts. either one when powered will send the power from the battery to the starter.


I doubt you fried the starter, but you can jump the relay to find out, Simply take a screw driver on the battery side lug and jump it to either one of the small studs on the top. This should send power straight to the starter and let you know its condition.

If I understand the situiation correctly, I suspect the truck will turn over but not run.


The best way to bypass the AMP gage is to solder the two wires together that bolt onto the gage from the back, After that the week link will be the terminals in the firewall connector.

 

[Bob H]

I don't understand the question, but here's a couple pics of a stock relay

 

[pah556]

The engine doesn´t turn over, the starter doesn´t even make a noise/click.
The only thing that says click is the starter relay when I either turn the ignition and/or jump the large pos. bolt on the starter and the large black cable to the starter.
That should make the starter turn, but nothing.
Cables from amp gauge are connected to eachother (no amp gauge anymore).
Large black cable that came from the alternator and went into the firewall is now cut and both the one from the alt and the firewall are lenghtened and go to the pos. bolt of the relay.
Red cable from the relay into the firewall is untouched.
All this according to the diagram I found via this forum.
Catalog

 

[jaxsof]

That is a Chrysler starter relay. Battery hot goes straight to large lug on starter, and a small wire goes from the relay to the solenoid on the starter. If you suspect the relay or wiring is bad, you can jump(momentarily) between the two lugs on the starter.

Here are the wiring diagrams: The entire manual is about 10mb. If you want it, I can email it

 

[jaxsof]

The statements on Madelectrical arent entirely accurate. The biggest cause of failure on a gas powered Chrysler is the ballast resistor. If It starts, but doesnt run after you release the key, try bypassing the ballast resistor. Dont run this way too long, it will kill your coil.

The ampmeters, as long as they are left allone work fine. I have one in a 1969 Plymouth that is still accurate, with 329000 miles on it. However, I was a Chrysler certified Master Technician (as well as ASE Master Auto and HD Truck) too.

 

[N1265]

IMO,

1) The Ford part number you gave in the above post is for a solenoid, try jumping the starter as JAXSO stated above after ensuring you have power to the main lug on the starter. I am not sure how these two would work together. did it run this way before ?

2) The way you wired the black wire from the alternator and the AMP gage should work
( you are simple using the lug on the Ford solenoid to bolt the two together )

3) The red wire should not be an issue because it was not touched, However the firewall connection could be burnt on either side of the connector. This is talked about towards the bottom of the MAD article you linked to and should be checked

 

[jaxsof]

That PN, 3180465 (image attached), is a very old (jeep) number. Ford PNs are much longer, and usually contain letters. A search of that PN gise us a different image than the one the OP gave us, which is a Mopar part. The Chrysler PN from '89 is 4111671 (for a rwd car)

 

[jaxsof]

The heavy lug goes to the battery, The center wire goes to the solenoid (on the starter). The other two wires go to the neutral start switch and the ignition switch (key)

 

[pah556]

Well, it´s been awhile.
I have bought a new (reman) alternator, but I don´t really know how to connect the wiring.
The alt has 2 field prongs, but the car has a normal (original) voltage regulator with original wiring and connector.
That wiring is also going to where the alt sits, but can Iconnect them to these field prongs or do I even need another voltage regulator (electronic), or is it already electronic?
The big black wire goes to bat. that I know, and there is an extra wire wich goes to the "fuel pacer" light in the dash??? (I guess the bulb for bat. went out or isn´t there)
I´m pretty sure it does not have a internal regulator, it´s one of those original style alternators (rounded front and rear and internal fan).

 

[pah556]

Fixed.
I got it running again, with a new starter and a new generator and a new regulator (the one on the firewall).
It´s only that with the new regulator it still charges a bit high (14.9 volts).
Better than the old one (18-19 volts).

Now some other stuff has given up, but that might be due to the miss I caused before.
The heater blower motor gave up.
Had it out of the car, put 12 volts strait on it... nothing.
Dismantled it to check the brushes, they were still pushing on the axle and not shot at all.
So I guess it just burnt through somewhere.
Time for a new motor.
Finding those in Sweden is not easy, and the shipping cost from/to USA/Sweden can get pretty high on such a thing.

Did some testing on the fuel gauge and came to the conclusion that I have a short in the wiring harness between the tank and the firewall connector.
Going to cut the wire some 5 inches from the tank connector and 5 inches from the firewall connector and just put in a new wire with some tie straps.
The gauge itself works (tested with 3 volts and it started to rise slowly).
Now the only thing to check/replace is the stuff in the tank.

Thought about lowering the front of the tank (halfempty), support it with stands and an old blanket so I don´t puncture it.
Then lower it even more on the back side with one or two jacks.

Sounds OK?

How much space do I need to get the sending unit out?

 

[N1265]

The majority of the time , the sending unit will have a hole in the float and this is why they always read empty. They are brass but for some reason rust out. they are cheep on e-bay ( about $10. U.S.D.) and you can use the aftermarket ones marketed for the older ford mustangs. ( if same design )

The sending unit is screwed down to the plastic tank with a steel ring and rubber gasket. When I did mine the heads on the screws were so rusted I could not get on them and had to pull the tank compleatly out. they are easy to handle when empty. If I remember right, the biggest PITA was the hose clamp on the fill tube.

You might get lucky and be able to get it out like you are planning, but I would not count on it. but if you do you should only need about 8 in. to wiggle the sending unit out.

 

[jaxsof]

~14v is normal for a12v battery that is cold, and is in need of a charge. Definately better than 18v though!