Posi / spool / open rears WHY WHY WHY

[DEL03]

:banghead: YesterdayWe wanted to test our limits we live in florida and have installed the arb maunal shifter for the transfer case and until YESTERDAY we have never been stuck now Yesterday We wanted to know if we got got stuck that I could hook I the winch to my Suburban and pull myself out well as you would guess on flat ground it comes out with no problem the suburban holds its ground (mind you it was only the rears were stuck) so feeling oh so CONFIDENT I put it behind a hill and proceeded to pull it over the top well if anyone would guess it made it to the top then proceeded to pull the Suburban backwards well at this point I tried to help by driving over (because that would cooler) and ended up high sided with only the tires on the right side turning and at this point I was working hard at getting the Suburban to hold ground I even tightened the cable and BURIED the Suburban to the Frame of course the Deuce didnt move and the Suburban pop't right out then I tried to Bury the tire and hook the winch to it after a half hour of digging Florida sand buring a tire at an angle I managed to bend one of the tire holes and pull about three yards of sand up out of the ground at this point it was time for reinforcements so I called my eldest to drive the Deuce bacwards as we used as a snatch strap on the Suburban it took three tries but as soon as the left side had traction out she came now that me and my wife want to know who has
the spool

or the posi unit

what goods and bads now the suburban has a posi(locker) from factory and it is great then my sons has a spool and it sounds like crap going around corners and wears tires quick but he is never stuck also has anyone seen like a winch shovel or anchor system that works for our size trucks :banghead:



del03

 

[1ton]

The largest winch anchors i have seen are rated for 14K of pull. I think they would be right out at their limit. It could be used but i would pefer a big tree or duece sized vehicle.

 

[Albin]

Is there any possible way for you to add some sentence structure to your post. You know, simple things like: periods, commas, paragraphs, etc. that would make your post READABLE, if not intelligent!
[!]

 

[baja_power]

Is there any possible way for you to add some sentence structure to your post. You know, simple things like: periods, commas, paragraphs, etc. that would make your post READABLE, if not intelligent!
[dito]

 

[Recovry4x4]

Well, you are limited on choices today but not as much as you used to be. The Detroit locker used to be your only choice and its not a bad one. Now with Ouverson Engineering on the forefront, you have a second choice of lockers and they make a spool. If you really want to experience a vehicle that wont steer, put spools in the back. The only thing that will be shorter than your patience, is your tire life. Even with one or two Detroits, you have to understand how they work and modify your driving habits to deal with their quirks. If you have deep pockets you might check with White Owl in Kinston NC. They had some complete rear axles with air lockers left over from Norway stock but they aren't cheap. Other than that, plan ahead. If there are no vehicles at least as big as yours, I wouldn't take too many chances. Even trees in FL aren't very sturdy for winching. Deuces in stock form are limited off roaders at best.

 

[cranetruck]

A low cost very effective way to improve the off road performance is simply to use tire chains. I have used them extensively in mud, snow etc and have not yet gotten stuck (one time I didn't use chains and the front diff was in the mud, but that time, the hydraulic outriggers saved the day). I don't have a winch.
Note that the use of tire chains are not permitted in some off-road events (Top Truck Challenge), I guess it would be considered cheating.
In 6x6 mode and off road the chains make the deuce almost unstoppable.

It would be interesting to compare chains vs lockers.

 

[ken]

I feel your pain on sinking the spare. Sounds like your FL sand is too soft for that trick. What angle do you think you used? I've never bent a rim, you must have been really stuck. I have been thinking of building a plate with the same bolt battern as the rim to make hooking the cable up quicker. I'm usally pretty tired after digging a 6 foot hole! I'm planning to go with the detroit myself as soon as the cash is there. I'm planning on using one in the middle axle. I'm with Ctruck get some tire chains, the ND's are useless!!!!!!

 

[DEL03]

Good Grammar come on I drive a Deuce to work and get it stuck just to test the limits! this way just in case I was to spend time actually using it I would know where to and not to go. I like the locker idea but my curiosty was if in a 14,028 lb truck if it worked the same as in the Suburban, you know ratchets as it goes around corners or if it would be as stiff as a spool, if so then it would just be better to save time and labor and drop a spool instead of resetting ring and pinions? also has anyone pulled the chunk with the axle still in the truck and if so what contraption did you make to lift it out?????????


thank you



ps. does anyone have a link for the ancors???????????????

del03

 

[1ton]

http://www.pullpal.com/ppspec.html

 

[rdixiemiller]

Spools are great for sand drags, or dragsters. They are really bad for street use. Your turning radius will be, say, 100 yards in Fla sand. It will start to plow when you least want it to, trying to ease by a large pine, for instance.
I grew up in NW Fla, so I can speak of driving big trucks in the sand with the authority of many years experience.
A deuce in the sand will do fine, until it starts to go down. Then, as you found out, you can go out of sight! I spent a couple of years driving dump trucks while I was in school. With the power divider lock out engaged, the rears work like deuce rears. With a load, you were alright. If running light, you would get wheel hop and start to go down. I have had to air down all 8 rear tires to about 10 PSI to get out of a sand hole. Street treads did better than any other style we tried. Military NDT's were about the worst thing we ran.
Tire selection will make a lot of difference. Take off the duals and flip the hubs. Single out the rears and get a set of street tread radials, 1100's, or 12.50's (if you can afford the wider wheels). If you know you are going sand running, drop the air pressure to 15 PSI or so. You can use your on board air to raise the pressure back up for the drive home.
Your truck is going to be a little easier to stick because of the winch. the extra weight on the front is going to tend to sink the front axle into the sand, then the rears will want to spin. Try putting about 1 ton near the back of the bed next time you go sand digging, see if that improves your traction.
Not trying to be long winded, but I learned some hard lessons sticking trucks in the sand! And, as you have discovered, a stuck deuce is really fun to get out!

 

[UraniumMan]

I made a stop at our local 'Les Shwab tire center' today to inquire about replacing my deuce's 9.00" x 20" stock military treads with something more aggressive. The salesman suggested that I would need to replace the rims first off, with 22.5" rims. That would be tough also, with the 6 lug pattern. Then my choices are still limited for tires; at least with their sources. I think he wanted to sell me some rims and tires, but was not very sure of his ability to set me up. lol

I am just wondering if anyone out there has had luck finding a solution for replacing the tread with something more aggresssive. I would like something that would do well in mud and snow. I got the deuce primarily for off-road use, and those slick stock tires are crap for mud and snow. Chains are not a good option for my habits.

I did a search for this topic, by-the-way, and found nothing but the mention of placing the wider 11.00" x 20" tires on the same rims, but they have the same crummy tread.. This truck has so much power, and it's wasted in those slicks.. lol (Mine are at about 70%, by the way, and they are still lame.)

The :banghead: animation was appropriate on Delo's post, cause that's what I felt like doing after reading it. LOL Sorry to pick on you dude, but they make stop-signs and periods for a reason..

 

[cranetruck]

Great info, Rdixiemiller! I have virtually no experience with driving in sand, but it makes sense what you say.

 

[Gatnom]

Hey U-man: I'm having trouble buying your tire salesman's pitch! I've seen plenty of trucks driving around on 10:00 x 20 rubber with fairly aggressive tread. I'd be looking for another tire guy if thats what you want. Dave

 

[ken]

Firestone makes a 10.00-20 called the SA traction ND, in load range G. about $175 apiece in Houston. The tread looks like a super swamper.

 

[DEL03]

OK Let me understand if I even out the weight front to rear better traction no digging


currently we have about a 150-200 gallon empty water tank in the rear against the cab to this point we have never been stuck as long as the 6x6 was working, the problem the other day was high sided???? do do a lack of planning we truely were just testing the winch and got way over zelous! never in a MILLION years could you have convinced me that my Suburban buried to the frame with the brakes on would have just popped out of the grave it was buried in. I knew my winch was good but that good??? I would have to say it was definately planned out well when they built it, but at this time I needed and wanted my Suburban to be stuck?????????? either way it was all over after we pulled her back down the other side......oh yeah bed mounted winch coming soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



del03

 

[spicergear]

GIVE A GUY A BREAK about GRAMMER...IT'S A TRUCK SITE NOT AND ENGLISH MAJOR SITE!! GEEZE.

I've done a bunch of Rockwell posi jobs. I took some pics of the last one. They're really quite simple once you get the rear so you can work on it.

Here's a couple of hints, by stacking a couple of nickles on top of the nuts nearly hidden under the pinion side you can use that to break the chunk's seal from the housing then pry the rest of the way with bars or screw drivers.

The chunk is 215Lbs. Do not think it balances well or will come out easy. These things are big and burly and fingers mean nothing to them.

You've got two caps that hold the diff into the main chunk. Under those are the threaded caps for bearing preload and centering the diff. What I've always done is to put a punch mark on one of the tits sticking off it and one on the cap so I know where I need to get them back to. Also mark one cap to the case so there's no confusion there. Pop off the bolts with an air gun, I always spin out the preload cap things a few turns but not take them out, then pull (it might take a little to break the oil suction) the diff out. Cut the safety wire, then blast it apart with an air gun. Tap it until you see one side start to come out. It's basically in halves. Pull that side, pull out the spiders AND THE TWO SHIMS, drop in you're Detroit, OUVERSON ALLOY LOCKER, or OUVERSON SPOOL and slap that slinky back together. When you put the bolts back in, try to align the wire holes as it will facilitate threading the new safety wire. Once that's done, TAKE THE SKINNY CENTER BOLT OUT OF THE DETROIT..., put the outer bearing races on it and put it back into the case. Get the caps back on so that you can still spin the side things. I've always ended up about on tit shy of my punch markes when going back together and never minded or had one come back. Once they're set, air torque it (heh,heh), slap some black RTV on the housing, get a buddy to help lift it and set it down nice and even back into the housing. Poof, you've got traction. ttp://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/spicergear/album?.dir=859a&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

 

[M1075]

I have taken a page from the current military designs and upgraded to super singles with double beadlocks. I don't think you can do any better than these for offroad performance. Since they are radials, the onroad performance is probably better also. Here is a pic showing a comparison to 9.00x20s.

 

[M1075]

Hey Spicer Gear-

Which is which in the pic with two lockers?

 

[rdixiemiller]

Look at Berg supply. He has a lot of the current military radials in stock at good prices. 1100, 12.50, 1400, and 385's. They have a good looking tread design (Michelin XL). You can run 1100's on the stock wheels, that is what I have on mine. I have heard you can run the 12.50's on the stock wheel, they just look odd because they are ballooned out. Widening wheels is an option I am going to explore in the next couple of months, as I want to run either 12.50's or the 385's.
I drive a deuce to work 2 or 3 days a week myself, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.
As for chains in sand, I would not think they would be very good. The best sand tires I ever ran were some old aircraft tires (smooth). If they spin a little, they don't dig a hole. We used to get old 15" aircraft tires from Eglin AFB for our beach jeeps. We would screw the beads to the wheels and run with little to no air pressure (25 ply tires). They wuld last forever, and you could run all over that white, soft sand around Seagrove Beach.
Driving in sand is a whole different experience from mud. If a wheel starts hopping, you can dig clean out of sight in a flash if you have agressive tread.

 

[Recovry4x4]

For sand follow rdixiemillers recommnedations. Deuces are nose heavy SOBs and with the skinny tires, thats whats going to stick you be it sand, mud or whatever. As Robert said, any weight at the rear of the bed can unload some weight from the front tires. 3000# sitting on the back of the bed can do wonders. Remember a deuce weight distribution is close to 50-50 unloaded so do the math. 7000# on 2 front tires and 7000# on eight back tires. No wonder they sink like a brick. In snow 4000# in the center of the bed helps a bunch but on mud or sand, keep it to the rear. Ask Bjorn about the ability to shift weight from one end of the truck to the other, has has a device just for this!