Question about local zoning law in FL for Deuce Parking

[hankthetank]

Hey Guys,

I plan on moving my M35A3 down here to FL (wilton manors), but with the local code of ordinances i'm a bit concerned that i may be able to park my Deuce in my driveway. Is the Deuce a commercial vehicle?

Here is the code:

Parking or storage of certain types of vehicles not permitted in residential districts of the city.
(1)
It shall be unlawful for any person to park or store a commercial vehicle, bus, construction or industrial equipment or farm equipment in residential districts. Only one (1) commercial vehicle, of not more than one (1) ton capacity per dwelling unit, may be parked or stored at a building site, and such vehicle must be located in a garage, carport, paved driveway or parking space. The resident/owner of commercial vehicles greater than one (1) ton capacity, but not exceeding one and one-half (1½) tons capacity, which have been legally parked within the city upon residential property prior to the adoption of this section shall have ninety (90) days from the date of adoption of this section to register such vehicles with the city as "a legally nonconforming commercial vehicle". The parking of one (1) registered "legally nonconforming commercial vehicle" shall be permitted upon the residential property designated on the registration form provided the "legally nonconforming commercial vehicle" is parked and maintained in compliance with all, when applicable, provisions of the Code and the ownership or tenancy of the residential property is not changed.
(2)
If for any reason, the "legally nonconforming commercial vehicle" is not parked and maintained at the residential property for a period of more than sixty (60) days, it shall be deemed abandoned and shall thereafter be discontinued.
(3)
In the event that the tenancy or ownership of the residential property upon which the "legally nonconforming commercial vehicle" is registered changes, it shall be deemed abandoned and shall be discontinued.
(4)
The parking or storage of a bus upon residential property is prohibited.
(5)
This section shall not apply to property for which an active building permit has been issued.


The definition of a commercial vehicle they say:
Commercial vehicle shall mean any vehicle intended, designed or used for transportation of people or goods in a commercial venture and on which is displayed or printed or affixed any sign or marking which identifies or advertises any business or commercial venture. The term shall specifically include, but not be limited to, those vehicles commonly referred to as tractor-trailer rigs, wreckers, dump trucks, tankers, garbage trucks, flatbed trucks, tractors and other trucks having a capacity greater than one (1) ton. It shall not include a private passenger vehicle, van, or pickup truck.






What you guys think? They do say you are allowed to have a Recreation vehicle:


Recreational vehicle shall mean and include camping trailers, truck campers, motor homes or travel trailers when any of such vehicles are designed to provide temporary living quarters for recreation, travel, or camping use.

Below is link to codes:
ARTICLE II. - STOPPING, STANDING, PARKING


Thanks,
Mike

 

[wreckerman893]

I would go to the code office with a picture of the deuce and explain that you are a hobbyist/collector and ask for a definative answer. Best to get it from the horses mouth.

 

[shannondeese]

Good Luck I am watching this one. Since I am moving back to Fl in 12 months. I am going back to North Fl though.

 

[plym49]

How would a military vehicle be considered to have been used for commercial purposes? The government is not a profit-making enterprise. It would seem to me that a military vehicle could not, by definition, be considered to have been in commercial service.

 

[DeucesWild11]

I would go the historical route. I may have had trouble in NY if mine were not bobbed as here we have weight and length limits.. With a Historical plate you should be able to get around such things.. If registered normally the weight alone would classify it as commercial. You usually get a break on reg fees if set up as Historical. Then again I am talking NY laws here.. Should be somewhat similar for FL?

 

[clinto]

Is the Deuce a commercial vehicle?

Parking or storage of certain types of vehicles not permitted in residential districts of the city.

It shall be unlawful for any person to park or store ............ other trucks having a capacity greater than one (1) ton. It shall not include a private passenger vehicle, van, or pickup truck.

Looks like the code says it won't fly. If they say it will, better get it in writing and talk to an attorney. Make sure your (reputable) attorney says that their written guarantee holds legal water.

Also, better have a legal fund, because at some point, if you find a way to squeak or sneak by, a neighbor is going to have an issue and the BS is gonna' roll. Straight towards you.

Have a contingency plan in place: If you can't keep it at home, where will you keep it?

How would a military vehicle be considered to have been used for commercial purposes? The government is not a profit-making enterprise. It would seem to me that a military vehicle could not, by definition, be considered to have been in commercial service.

And a little old lady might have bought a C6500 Chevy dump truck just to drive to church, thus it was never used commercially but I can guarantee if this poster tries to bring it home, it will be called commercial.

Original usage doesn't come into play in this situation.

 

[Rellim4560]

Silly south Florida, I just park in the middle of my front lawn and tell the neighbors it's lawn art. This year we had it running over our scarecrows and even put Xmas light on the deuce.

 

[Rellim4560]

Here the photo

 

[saddamsnightmare]

February 9th, 2012.

I'd hate to rain on the man's parade, but... No, the deuce was not designed as a commercial vehicle, unfortunately it is of the class and construction as defined above to be termed a "Commercial" vehicle because they are used by others for logging and construction purposes. I hope you do check with the local zoning office to check, but I wouldn't bet on your being allowed to keep it in town for any reason. You had either better plan to buy property in the country and either build a house and garage on it, or just a garage, because that dog ain't going to hunt. I'm not being cynical, you're in Florida, not Texas, and many people in Florida wish to retire to an area where people like themselves live, not nuts like us who collect OD iron. You might want to stay under the M1028 class of trucks, because that one can get you busted too under the ordinances you cited above....

 

[RAYZER]

I live in central Fl and have kept my cargo deuce backed into my driveway in a residential neighbourhood for the past two years,of course i keep it looking top notch so its not an eye sore.
From down the street you can't see it because of some trees and the camouflage paint.
The neighbours don't seem to mind,they think its cool and it seems to add some extra security.
Sometimes you can get away with it, and sometimes can't.

 

[bbftx]

By the strict reading of the commercial vehicle definition, you are fine.

Your quote: "The definition of a commercial vehicle they say:
Commercial vehicle shall mean any vehicle intended, designed or used for transportation of people or goods in a commercial venture AND on which is displayed or printed or affixed any sign or marking which identifies or advertises any business or commercial venture."

So, as long as you don't put a commercial sign on the vehicle it should not be deemed a commercial vehicle (if you have the proper ordinance recognized by your municipality.) I second the notion of the checking first with your municipality though, as they can make life difficult and cite you anyway. Then you'd have to fight it out in your local justice system.

 

[Flyingvan911]

I agree. Go to the authorities and ask them. Be sure you know the size and weight of your truck so you will have the right info. It's funny how they use the word "discontinued."

 

[hankthetank]

thanks guys, yea i'll have to check with office. Some guy down the street has a 30 ft RV sitting in his front yard. Would the deuce be considered a Recreational vehicle, you can go camping in it and sleep in back i guess...

 

[Dodge man]

Former military vehicles fall into a gray area. They're built similarly to commercial vehicles and certain big enough to qualify as one. However they were never designed for or intended for commercial use so strickly speaking they aren't and never were commercial vehicles (IMO). The fact, that SOME were used as commercial vehicles by loggers, etc AFTER their military service is entirely besides the point. There are PLENTY of standard private passenger vehicles that are also used by loggers and others but that doesn't make ALL passenger vehicles commercial vehicles and it would be ridiculous to argue that it did. But to get back to the main topic, the problem is that code enforcement officers have WIDE latitude in deciding what is commercail and what isn't, what is "junk" and wasn't isn't and a whole host of other issues. My point is if THEY decide that it's a commercial vehicle, or junk or anything else, they can issue you a citation and the local board will almost certainly back them. You can read a huge number of threads on this site and others who have fought ridiculous code enforcement citations. They have all had to get a good lawyer involved and spent a lot of money to prevail.

The bigger problem for me is that in my county (Seminole) and many other Florida counties, in addition to banning commercial vehicles, they ALSO have a regulation against having any vehicle with more than two axles in ANY residential area. Yes, a bobbed deuce is ok but not a standard one! I can own a bobbed 10 ton but not a deuce! Note that Rayzor is in the same county that I am and he has gotten away with it but if someone complains they WILL be after him. I have two whiners in my neighborhood and I know they'd instantly be on the phone complaining if I brought in a large vehicle. That regulation is why I own an M-37 instead of a deuce. However I did talk to my county commissioner about keeping a deuce and explained to him that it wasn't a semi truck and didn't make the noise other problems that a semi truck did and that was a 25 year old collector's vehicle that would be used for parades and such and he seemed to be receptive to the idea of creating an exemption for it. But I bought the M37 instead and never pursued that avenue.

So, here's my suggestion. Take some good pictures of your vehicle or a good clean similar one if you don't have one yet. Perferable in a display or parade setting and then go talk to the commisioner for the area that you want to move to. See if he can help you get a waiver or something from zoning. Let him know (discretely) that if you can't get such a waiver in advance of moving there, that you will take your jobs and money and go elsewhere. It would probably help if you had hobbiest, collector or former MV tags on your vehicle and that pointed out to him. Or you can avoid the whole issue by moving to an area that's not zoned as residential. But check the zoning first and be sure that there aren't any other got-chas. Talk to a code enforcement officer in that area and get a feel for how friendly they are. My old one was an out and out BITCH but the new guy is very helpful and likes MVs. He told me that it he wouldn't go looking for an MV but that if he got a complaint that he would investigate it and issue a citation if appropriate. As soon as I brought home my M-37 I called him over and showed it to and and gave him a ride to prove that it was operable (another code enforcement requirement). He was tickled with it! What ever you do, don't move into anything with a home owners association! MOST of them are absolute NAZIS and have have nothing better to do than to spy and complain on each other. A lot of people form the north move to Florida with no idea how bad our HOAs are and soon get into trouble with them.

BTW before you move to Florida and buy tags for it be sure and read the requirements closely. If you register it as antique or former MV, etc you are only allowed to drive it for parades and displays! Legally you're not even allowed to drive it to go get new tires put on or to even fill up the tank. Yes it's ridiculous and yes it's widely ignored but you never know when some gung-ho cop might decide to enforce it. I registered my M-37 with Year of Manufacture tags and there are no restrictions on it's use.

 

[auron]

I live on base out in texas and I parked my 68 2.5 ton in front of the dorms there and people complained to no end about it but luckly I am an on base cop so nothing ever came from it. I sold it shortly before this deployment 'cause i wasn't going to leave it on base while im gone and it would have needed too much work to make it all the way home to be with my 3 other trucks i had to drive back.


but whatever you do get it all in writing and documented so they cant screw you later down the road cause you got grandfathered in if/ when they change it to ban mv

 

[vinny-socom1]

check with your local code officer, some don't care others paint a big target on you

Vinny

 

[lilgiff]

Great stuff!! We are about to get our first (and second) MVs. Two M35s. One will reside in Seminole County, one in Marion.

My guess is, the one in Seminole will be the zoning nightmare.

My experience in Seminole with HOAs was a disaster. I was cited for leaving my trashcans outside the garage for ONE NIGHT. I was cited for not trimming my palm tree (I didn't have a palm tree). I was cited for still having my x-mas tree up and visible in my front window in February.

I speculate the harrassment was because they didn't like my primered CJ-5 in the driveway... but it was properly licensed and insured so technically they couldn't do anything about it.

Hence... I now live in Marion Co!

 

[aczlan]

but whatever you do get it all in writing and documented so they cant screw you later down the road cause you got grandfathered in if/ when they change it to ban mv

This is the most important thing to do. If you have it in writing from Mr/Mrs/ XYZ the high up muckety muck of county zoning that your vehicle legal, it will help your cause greatly down the road when a new neighbor moves in down the street and decides to complain about it.

Aaron Z

 

[hankthetank]

Hey guys, just wanted to follow up on my original post, maybe it will help someone with similar problem later on.

I contacted the local code enforcement office here which is run by the police department. They said as long as the truck is parked on a hard surface like a driveway is it ok, not the grass. I told them it has antique plates and the truck is used for fun only, not commercial. So he says as long as it has current antique tags its would be considered a recreation vehicle.

Cheers!

 

[overlordofmars]

You really need to consult with the local zoning officer, and if he or god help you she approves, get that approval in writing. All it will take is one decrepit nasty busy body next door complaining all the time for the zoning officer to change their minds. All of the sudden, property values and visual nuisance quotes will come from their mouth and they will change their minds. Always get the decisions in writing and if they change, get a lawyer. Petty *******s usually are zoining officers, so treat them like the weasels they are.