Replaced my 803 batteries

[csheath]

4 years ago I replaced my batteries with Walmart brand U1R lawn tractor batteries. Yesterday they were too weak to start it on test day so I figured I would just go ahead and replace them. My generator sits stationery so I have no need to tie them down.

I gave up trying to keep a charger on it since I test it under load once a month anyway. I figure if they won't hold a charge for a month they need replacing anyways. I have to turn the dead crank switch off or they will drain.

I did go a little more proper this time and cut the old ends off and put on some proper ends for the type battery I am using. I picked up some copper connectors for 4 gauge cable with 1/4" eyes. The eyes had to be reamed a little. I used 1x3/4" SS bolts with flat washers and lock washers. I bought the connectors at Tractor Supply.

 

[Ray70]

Sounds like there is a chance you have a bad diode in your alternator. How long does it take for your batteries to drain down if you don't shut off the dead crank switch?

 

[Evvy Fesler]

JFYI: Copper galvanic corrosion occurs when copper and stainless steel are in contact.

 

[Scoobyshep]

Get some dielectric grease for the connections

 

[Evvy Fesler]

Get some dielectric grease for the connections

…and apply it between the copper and stainless steel.

 

[Scoobyshep]

…and apply it between the copper and stainless steel.

you should see copper to aluminum

 

[87cr250r]

If you're going to use dielectric grease on battery terminals it's best to coat the assembled connection with it.

Galvanic corrosion doesn't simply occur due to contact by dissimilar metals, it requires an electrolyte to be present (salt water). If you can keep the galvanic couple dry you won't have any galvanic corrosion.

 

[Scoobyshep]

If you're going to use dielectric grease on battery terminals it's best to coat the assembled connection with it.

Galvanic corrosion doesn't simply occur due to contact by dissimilar metals, it requires an electrolyte to be present (salt water). If you can keep the galvanic couple dry you won't have any galvanic corrosion.

Doesnt have to be salt water, moisture in general can start the reaction. Another concern (and more likely cause of battery corrosion) is Electrolytic Corrosion. But why split hairs

 

[Evvy Fesler]

You’re both right!

In electrical applications, galvanic corrosion occurs when a more active metal comes in contact with a less active one. Moisture acts as a catalyst and salt, acids and bases, when combined with water, are great catalysts. Moisture alone is a catalyst that speeds up a reaction. Apply EMF (electromotive force) i.e., electricity and it’s quite common to see parts deteriorate beyond use or build up a significant resistance (e.g. against a trickle charge). It house wiring, for example, electricity will try to overcome the resistance of the corrosion and the resulting arcing can ignite a fire.

If you can speed it up it’s logical that you can slow it down by removing the catalyst. Similarly, you can use like metals to eliminate it. Coatings too, are commonly used to extend service life. At the end of the day, we want an excellent electrical connection and for the mechanical connection to last longer than its value in the application. Measure value anyway you like, i.e. safety, replacement $, reliability, aggravation, etc.

In sum, coat the parts where they connect, assemble it, and coat it again. Heck, for the low cost of it, coat the assembly again!

 

[Coug]

Personally for battery connections I prefer noalox. It keeps out the air/oxygen to prevent corrosion, and the zinc in it can help improve electrical connections. The zinc also acts as a sacrificial anode if an electrolyte of some type does manage to get into the connection.

 

[Evvy Fesler]

Happy Holidays to all!

Question for you mechanical folk... does anyone manufacture bolts for battery terminals that are rated for copper and dissimilar materials ? I can't tell from the picture that @csheath posted, but the terminals appear to be coated and they probably accept copper. It seems to me that there must be a bolt for this application and topping it with noalox or similar would have me calling it a day.

 

[Ray70]

Happy Holidays to everyone!
First let me start by saying that EVERYTHING the others have mentioned about the different types of corrosion is solid fact.
However ( gonna go out on a limb here... ) I think we may be analyzing this too hard.
While the facts are true, I think the chances of you having any kind of issue regardless of what you use is minimal and is no worse and no faster occurring than the corrosive effects you will eventually see simply from the battery seeping a tiny bit around the posts as the battery ages.

I truly think you can use whatever wire or hardware you want.
Either use one of the suggested anti-oxidant compounds, or simply use automotive battery corrosion spray ( the red stuff ) that mechanics have used forever!
You can even throw on a set of the felt protection pads around the posts for extra security.
Bottom line is that I wouldn't loose any sleep over this, just do your due diligence, give it a little added protection and call it a day!
Anything you do to it will be better than 95% of the other hundreds of millions of lead acid battery installations out there!

 

[Scoobyshep]

Happy Holidays to everyone!
First let me start by saying that EVERYTHING the others have mentioned about the different types of corrosion is solid fact.
However ( gonna go out on a limb here... ) I think we may be analyzing this too hard.
While the facts are true, I think the chances of you having any kind of issue regardless of what you use is minimal and is no worse and no faster occurring than the corrosive effects you will eventually see simply from the battery seeping a tiny bit around the posts as the battery ages.

I truly think you can use whatever wire or hardware you want.
Either use one of the suggested anti-oxidant compounds, or simply use automotive battery corrosion spray ( the red stuff ) that mechanics have used forever!
You can even throw on a set of the felt protection pads around the posts for extra security.
Bottom line is that I wouldn't loose any sleep over this, just do your due diligence, give it a little added protection and call it a day!
Anything you do to it will be better than 95% of the other hundreds of millions of lead acid battery installations out there!

There is more than one way to skin this particular cat, just hard to inhibit a good spirited nerd debate.

 

[Evvy Fesler]

Happy Holidays to everyone!
First let me start by saying that EVERYTHING the others have mentioned about the different types of corrosion is solid fact.
However ( gonna go out on a limb here... ) I think we may be analyzing this too hard.
While the facts are true, I think the chances of you having any kind of issue regardless of what you use is minimal and is no worse and no faster occurring than the corrosive effects you will eventually see simply from the battery seeping a tiny bit around the posts as the battery ages.

I truly think you can use whatever wire or hardware you want.
Either use one of the suggested anti-oxidant compounds, or simply use automotive battery corrosion spray ( the red stuff ) that mechanics have used forever!
You can even throw on a set of the felt protection pads around the posts for extra security.
Bottom line is that I wouldn't loose any sleep over this, just do your due diligence, give it a little added protection and call it a day!
Anything you do to it will be better than 95% of the other hundreds of millions of lead acid battery installations out there!

"Bottom line is that I wouldn't loose any sleep over this..."

LOL, we do wander don't we?..! I couldn't agree more. Thanks @Ray70 for steering us back to the world of common sense!

 

[Scoobyshep]

Personally for battery connections I prefer noalox. It keeps out the air/oxygen to prevent corrosion, and the zinc in it can help improve electrical connections. The zinc also acts as a sacrificial anode if an electrolyte of some type does manage to get into the connection.

Noalox works great, only problem is 1 drop of it is: A. enough to coat a full grown elephant B. Is attracted to a clean shirt and C cant be cleaned off with anything less than lava soap and an SOS pad. Its like anitseize had a one night stand with napalm.

 

[Evvy Fesler]

Noalox works great, only problem is 1 drop of it is: A. enough to coat a full grown elephant B. Is attracted to a clean shirt and C cant be cleaned off with anything less than lava soap and an SOS pad. Its like anitseize had a one night stand with napalm.

OMGosh... I can't get the laugh emoji to work when I use my iPad!

 

[87cr250r]

Happy Holidays to all!

Question for you mechanical folk... does anyone manufacture bolts for battery terminals that are rated for copper and dissimilar materials ? I can't tell from the picture that @csheath posted, but the terminals appear to be coated and they probably accept copper. It seems to me that there must be a bolt for this application and topping it with noalox or similar would have me calling it a day.

Yes, they're called stainless steel bolts.

The terminals are lead, the lugs are copper, the bolts are stainless. You can't avoid a dissimilar metal combination. They key is to keep everything dry. If your battery starts blooming that blue stuff, it's time to replace the battery, it's leaking.

 

[csheath]

Haven't checked back in since I posted.

I usually coat everything with petroleum jelly before and after assembly. It seems to be the best corrosion inhibitor I have found. I even dip the wires in it before crimping.

The last set of these were dated September 2018 and the terminals were clean when I removed them. BUT I had that set connected by spreading the original top post connectors and running the bolt through the battery eyelets. Time will tell on the bare copper but I load test the generator monthly and look at everything inside both doors before and after running it. If it starts to corrode I will see it before it becomes a serious issue. I use the same battery with tinned copper connectors on my gate opener. I rarely look at that battery and usually get 4 to 5 years out of it before replacement.

As far as my draw goes it is only 60 milliamps with the dead crank switch in the normal position. Disconnecting the alternator doesn't make the draw go away but turning the switch off does. That is such a simple bypass to the problem I didn't feel the need to look any further for it.

 

[87cr250r]

Don't use petroleum jelly. It's a bad habit. Silicone grease is is what should be used as it doesn't deteriorate EPDM rubber components. Internet cheapskates substituted petroleum jelly because it's also a clear grease but color isn't the only part of the story.

 

[Evvy Fesler]

Don't use petroleum jelly. It's a bad habit. Silicone grease is is what should be used as it doesn't deteriorate EPDM rubber components. Internet cheapskates substituted petroleum jelly because it's also a clear grease but color isn't the only part of the story.

Also keep in mind that you want to prevent galvanic reaction. Corrosion is a related, but different issue.