SEE - Cold weather hydralic issues

[peakbagger]

I have seen comments on another forum regarding the hydraulics for SEEs being almost useless in extreme cold weather as the poster's SEEs came from down south and the fluid was too thick. Extreme cold weather in this case was in the -10 to -30 F range. I have seen the Technical Service hints about exercising the hydraulics in cold weather but its sound like that even has its limits. My SEE is parked for this winter due mostly to it getting in the way of snowplowing and no interest on my part to expose it to the nasty deicing chemicals used these days on the roads. I do at some point expect it will get used in the winter.

The question in my mind is should we be looking at something other than regular hydraulic fluid or engine oil for the SEE hydraulics?. I have had very good luck on regular vehicles using synthetic motor oil to make them turn over quicker in the winter as the viscosity of synthetic is far less impacted by temperature (it pours readily compared to regular oil in cold temps which pours like molasses). I wonder if switching to synthetic hydraulic fluid will have the same benefits?. Synthetics used to get blamed for increased engine oil leaks but I don't hear that as often. Curious how the old seals in system would adapt to it?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Could you put a heat exchanger in the hydraulic system somewhere? Run engine coolant to it and you should be fine.

 

[Speedwoble]

The solution for cold weather is to switch to a thinner hydraulic fluid. Anything else is just a bandaid. The belt driven pump will operate as soon as the engine is started, so it will be affected by cold fluid. It is the system that should be changed or pre-heated. However the belt pump is an open center system, so minimal restriction. The risk with thick fluid is cavitation or overpressure in the system. Change the fluid to a thinner hydraulic oil, or follow the cold weather advice.
The pto pump you can chose whether to engage or not.

 

[snowtrac nome]

We run synthetic aw 32 hydraulic oil up here with great success. that would be the way to go in my opinion, be advised it will be expensive but most synthetics are also environmentally friendly. Chevron clarity is what we use both environmentally friendly and flows good at cold temps. amz oil is also a great product but I don't know if it is certified as environmentally friendly.

 

[The FLU farm]

I haven't has any issues running the snow blower (off the rear hydraulics) with regular AW32.
Of course, I can't remember what the coldest temperature has been - not all the way down to -20, as I recall, but at least around zero.

Running the backhoe in the morning after a single digit night hasn't been a problem, either.

I couldn't afford synthetic, so if I had problems I'd probably switch to a lighter weight hydraulic fluid for the winter. Then dump the old AW32 back in in the spring.

 

[msharky007]

I haven't has any issues running the snow blower (off the rear hydraulics) with regular AW32.
Of course, I can't remember what the coldest temperature has been - not all the way down to -20, as I recall, but at least around zero.

Running the backhoe in the morning after a single digit night hasn't been a problem, either.

I couldn't afford synthetic, so if I had problems I'd probably switch to a lighter weight hydraulic fluid for the winter. Then dump the old AW32 back in in the spring.

Would the oil viscosity have anything to do with down force on bucket etc? If it's too thick?

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[The FLU farm]

I don't think it'd affect the force much, if any, but the speed.

 

[msharky007]

I don't think it'd affect the force much, if any, but the speed.

Trying to figure out why my down force is poor, the pump tends to emit a screeching sound when I try to plant it to use the backhoe.

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[Speedwoble]

Are you using the lever in the cab, or the remote by the backhoe? Be aware the level in the cab, if pressed down all the way, will go into a float mode. Mine screeches then too. Even in best case, the pressure relief limits how much downforce you can get.

 

[msharky007]

Are you using the lever in the cab, or the remote by the backhoe? Be aware the level in the cab, if pressed down all the way, will go into a float mode. Mine screeches then too. Even in best case, the pressure relief limits how much downforce you can get.

Has anyone tried and succeeded at increasing the down force? I tried to use the teeth on the bucket to break up some hard packed dirt, and it seemed to me to just float along the surface.

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[The FLU farm]

Trying to figure out why my down force is poor, the pump tends to emit a screeching sound when I try to plant it to use the backhoe.

Is it the pump or the belt that makes the noise?

 

[The FLU farm]

Has anyone tried and succeeded at increasing the down force? I tried to use the teeth on the bucket to break up some hard packed dirt, and it seemed to me to just float along the surface.

Jay Couch (Couch Off Road) made some mods described on the SEE, HHMH, and HME thread some time back. You may want to look into finding that one.

 

[tennmogger]

Suggestions:
1) Perhaps the military has used 15W40 engine oil in your SEE hydraulics. That could especially apply if the SEE is from 'down south'. The trend was to use one 'fluid' for everything, as the FMTV trucks had 15W40 in the automatic transmissions. Synthetic 10W oil or hydraulic fluid should solve your hydraulic problem.
2) Be sure the filter in the front hydraulic reservoir is clean. A partially plugged filter will severely restrict system performance, especially if the fluid is too thick.
3) the front loader runs on the front hydraulic system and that system has no bypass (on a normal 406 anyway). The belt is the weak link and squeals if the load is too high. Clean the belt and tension it to achieve better downforce (and lift force too obviously).

 

[msharky007]

Is it the pump or the belt that makes the noise?

Sounds more like the pump.

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[The FLU farm]

Sounds more like the pump.

I'd change the fluid, regardless of what's in there, if you haven't already. And like tennmogger says, clean the filter while you're at it.
And check belt tension.

I have a loader that's lame, like yours (but minus the noise), and one that works well. Haven't got around to figuring out what the difference is, other than that a restrictor/check valve is mounted in different locations between the two.

 

[tobyS]

I built hardwood dry sorting machinery and had to help put up an 85' x 200' x 22' pole barn with this machine in January. It got terribly cold and the truck was outdoors at the site. Fluid would not flow at all and the pump cavitation might have destroyed parts if pushed.

They had a large wood fired power plant to the kilns, nice and warm but a fair amount of moisture in the air. We pulled it inside and after a few hours I decided to see if the pump would even push the fluid (more like suck it in). It stopped the cavitation at low rpm so I let it run a while. It seemed to be doing okay, but the temp outside was below zero. After the frost that first formed on the heavy steel was long gone, the truck was still rather cold.
I raised the boom in the building and immediately frost formed on the cylinder rod as it extended and I raised the boom. I saw it, but really didn't think about it too much. I layed the boom back down, retracting the cylinder. The frost was so hard frozen to the rod that the seals did not remove it going in and that frost cut the seals surface and gave me a bad main cylinder leak. I was forced to work putting up the biggest building I have set trusses in the worst condition...with a main seal leak that ran on me the entire job.

 

[msharky007]

Anyone had any luck of removing hydraulic cylinder cap to reseal the unit? I can't get mine to budge. Steady pissing fluid

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[The FLU farm]

I made a feeble attempt on one cylinder some time back...and failed.

Since getting the rod separated from the piston can be harder yet, I sense a trip to the local hydraulic shop coming up.
I think there are three cylinders on the HMMH's crane alone that needs help. With the lack of a real winter, the crane has seen much use and the SEEs hardly any.

 

[msharky007]

I made a feeble attempt on one cylinder some time back...and failed.

Since getting the rod separated from the piston can be harder yet, I sense a trip to the local hydraulic shop coming up.
I think there are three cylinders on the HMMH's crane alone that needs help. With the lack of a real winter, the crane has seen much use and the SEEs hardly any.

I'm going try a little heat on it this week, see if it will move.

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[The FLU farm]

You can always try a pipe wrench, but I consider that a last resort. As in "Good thing I have a spare cap, so ruining this one is no big deal".

Come to think of it, a chain wrench might work and not leave the cap quite as badly scarred.