Swapped engine, wont start, HOT battery terminals

[kraut83]

Hey guys,
First off Im sorry I dont have the time to search the forum for a possible answer to this so I am hoping that I can get some help before I get started tomorrow. I have one day left from fall break(school) and then its school/work again till dec 10th.

Here's the run down.
Swapped the motor out, pretty sure we got everything back in as it supposed to go. No extra parts etc. I cranked it 5 times before the batteries got run down and I just needed to stop for the day. The only other symptoms other than the batteries getting run down is the battery terminals got hot, and I mean pretty dam hot. I labeled all the battery terminal wires so they did not get switched, Here is where I think it may be from though I could be way off...

There is one wire on the driver side alternator (black wire white line) that I for the life of me can not remeber where it goes, it was taped up with all the other wires labled drivers side alt... I have the red on the red post, ground from the manifold on the ground post, the other two plugs are pretty unmistakeable, however that 1 extra wire I thought went to the ground post. Pretty sure that may be wrong. Could anyone either post a picture of where that wire may go or give me an idea of which post it goes to? I did give it a once over for pinched wires and shorts and am fair certain that isn't the issue but I will double check that tomorrow.

Next issue, I realize part of the reason it may not have started is that all of the fuel lines are empty. I'm pretty sure its gonna take the motor several rounds of cranking to get them filled again. Are there any tips/tricks to speeding that process up so I'm not draining the batteries and having to resort to charging the batteries then trying again?

On the off chance anyone wants/needs to know what all got put on the new engine:
fuel lift pump, water pump, fluid HB, thermostat, starter.
New gaskets on all 4 manifolds, new gaskets for above.
and of course fresh fluids.

the alternators are only a couple of years old.

Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated, Ill be hitting it again early in the morning. I have a few more things on the to do list for my break in December but Id like to have it running before then incase we get some nasty weather this winter.

In case anyone is wondering the engine swap was due to a failed crank. The harmonic balancer was crap and its embarrassing to admit that I just didn't know any better

Thanks in advance

 

[NDT]

I would disconnect the fuel line between the filter and injection pump so you can see when and if fuel has made it that far.

 

[sandcobra164]

Batteries tend to get hot with extended cranking time. A loose connection can make them hotter. Please check for 24 volts at the pink wire on the top of the injection pump. Remove that wire while the key is in the on position and listen for a click when disconnecting / reconnecting. If you do not hear a click, the fuel shutoff maybe gummed up or the solenoid may be bad. If you're good there, open the bleed valve on the fuel filter, top left of housing if you still have the stock cartridge type filter and crank. It should squirt onto the passenger fender if you have fuel there. Good there, time to crack the injector lines to bleed them. Let us know what that yields you. I will take pictures of my trucks battery wiring tomorrow afternoon if no one posts pictures before then.

 

[kraut83]

Roger that, thank you!

Ill be bringing my computer to the shop and have internet there. Ill be posting as I go.

 

[Gunfreak25]

I'd remove the glow plugs for easier faster cranking to get the fuel down to the injectors. Once you see things getting wet and or seeing diesel fog from the glow plug holes, start putting them back in.



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[Matt5]

Batteries will get hot when cranking, echoing some of what was said. First thing to do is check for fuel, assuming stock fuel filter, crack the bleeder and crank, do you get fuel?

You said a key thing here "replaced the lift pump" so far in my experience major mistake. My awesome (read pos) replacement died in 1 year, and then ended up causing me to tear the top of my IP off (that turned into removing the entire IP) due to... a failed lift pump... Not only was the pump not pumping, it was *blocking* the fuel flow... I actually had the same issue as you, had the IP off, could not get truck to run. Checked for fuel at the filter (nothing) pressurized the tank... nothing out of the pump, pulled the tank line... fuel all over, replaced NEW pump with a used one off a humvee... truck fired off in... 10 seconds? LOL

Anyway back onto your issue, check for fuel at the filter while cranking, if YES as you said your lines may be empty, crack *one* injector line at the injector and crank until you get fuel coming out of the line close it, go to the next and so on. While doing this, having 2 battery chargers on would not be a bad idea (one for each battery). I also (too late for you) pull the pink wire BEFORE cranking to bleed some air out of the system... does it help idk... can't hurt.

Please give your starter a nice break between cranking (20 seconds of cranking really 5 min break be nice) keep in mind the weaker your batteries get, the hotter everything else will get (wiring, starter, etc).

Taking 10 seconds to check for 12V at the pink wire also not a bad idea.

I also assume no smoke out the tail pipe.

 

[jmb6741]

That sounds just like what we do..... take the fuel line off before the pump and put air pressure in the tank to get the fuel there quick and then hook lines back up, then crack the filter loose and spin over to bleed air then retighten, next crack injector lines and bleed air. With injector lines loose spin until good clean fuel comes out and then start tightening them back up.

 

[kraut83]

Things checked so far.
12v at pink wire affirmative
Removed glow plugs for easier cranking,
1st cycle of cranking, now resting still no fuel. Battery posts warm but not hot like yesterday.
I also removed the one questionable wire and tested it for resistance to ground and positive wire, nothing. So for now going to leave it off.

How would I go about putting pressure into the fuel tank? I have access to air just not certain about getting a good seal on the fuel opening.

 

[kraut83]

Making sure to give it 5mins between cranking while replying here. I had to replace the fuel lift pump unfortunately. It was the one thing that got damaged while putting the motor back in. the nipple on the bottom got pinched and it seemed wiser to replace than to try to bend that nipple back open. I have another off the old motor aswell, just figured new would be better.

 

[NDT]

"Still no fuel" where? Glow plug hole or filter?

 

[kraut83]

Figured out the fuel tank pressure. I have fuel at the filter now. Probably saved a significant amount of time there. 1 more 10sec cranking interval still no fuel at the glow plug holes. Gonna let it rest and go for round 3.

 

[kraut83]

5 more rounds of cranking and still nothing at the cylinder. Trying a few more times then setting the batteries on a charger and getting lunch.

 

[Gunfreak25]

I hope when the crank on the old motor went it didnt snap the rotor on the injection pump. If that happens, the pump will be a bear to get fuel through if it's not spinning. I have a 12v frame pump and key on engine off it does push fuel through the IP as observed with a clear fuel return hose, but Its really slow.

Assuming all other things are okay, like the tank pickup sock isn't plugged, the IP bleeds off excess air and fuel through a vent wire assembly in the hydraulic head. This travels to the pump top cover where it then flows out of the nipple ontop and back to the tank.

The rotor has a designed weak spot machined into it so it will shear like a bolt instead of ruining the valvetrain in the event contaminated fuel gets in the pump (like grit or water)

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[kraut83]

the IP from the old motor is still on the old motor. The new motor has its original IP on it still. I was to understand it was test run before it was shipped.

I have 12v power at the pink and both green wires going to the IP. I took these clips apart and gave the a good once over with 400 grit and made sure they connected well to the IP connections. I have fuel in the line from the filter to the IP (at the fuel filter). Still no fuel at the cylinders that I can see(nothing coming out of the glow plug holes). ​

 

[kraut83]

Also nothing coming out of the tube on top of the IP. had a buddy put a finger over it to see if any air was being pushed out.

 

[sandcobra164]

Did you try disconnecting / reconnecting the pink wire and listen for a clicking noise from the Injection Pump Solenoid? If you have fuel at the filter ensuring the fuel shutoff is functioning would be my next stop. You can remove the top of the injection pump and free it up by hand if stuck. Be careful when re-installing that you capture the fuel shutoff with the solenoid. If you fail to re-assemble correctly the engine will run away when you get it running.

 

[Gunfreak25]

Cranking with the top cover off the IP is a good idea. It will run that way too, if you dont mind fuel spilling everywhere. This will rule out a 12v solenoid issue as well as a HPR issue (housing pressure regulator aka the checkball).



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[kraut83]

I had to quit for the day and get the truck moved out of the way of shop opperations. Before I did I decided to check one last time if there is fuel actually flowing at the filter while cranking and it is not. I had fuel at the filter due to pressurizing the tank, but did not double check after if it was actually flowing. Correct me if I am wrong but this leads me to believe the fuel lift pump is my main culprit currently.

I had help with this swap project and while I was installing the starter my girlfriend and her father were installing the fuel lift pump, they were struggling to install it and after doing some more reading this leads me to believe it was not installed correctly.

When I remove the pump what is the best way to see if the fuel pump cam is in the correct position? Its kinda busy down there and not easy to see much with the angle. I am assuming that "in its lowest position" means that the shaft is actually further up towards the cam as opposed to down (compressing the lever on the lift pump), am I correct in this assumption?

Its my first motor swap and for my helpers the first diesel swap. Unfortunately they are far better versed in gassers so all the trouble shooting is in my hands.

I will try to get back to this as soon as possible, most likely sat/mon and will post what I find out.

I appreciate all the effort from you all helping me figure this out!​

 

[NDT]

Well you learned something. Any time you are faced with a interconnected system and you don't know where the problem is, start diagnostics at one end and work forward.

 

[Gunfreak25]

Did they install the pushrod that actuates the pump? I've seen those lift pumps bad out of the box. Most are all mexico or China rebuilds.

I'd wager lift pump or plugged tank sock.

The DB2 Injection pump WILL suck fuel but it doesnt like to unless it's pretty free flowing. It often masks a failed lift pump.

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