WA / OR non-CDL guys

[kochevnik]

For those of you who own MV's in WA or OR - most especially those who have 5 tons -

If I buy a 5 ton (M52A2) and go to register it as an antique vehicle - does the title you have for your truck specify GVWR on it or when you go to DMV can you state the gross weightthat goes on the registration papers ?

This is an important question for me to get answered because I don't want to re-test for a CDL (had a class A 20 years ago). The M52A2 w/w is 18,500 pounds empty - adding the cargo weight would put it over 26,000 - so if WA / OR have a GVWR over 26,000 on the registration paperwork then I have to get a CDL. And yes, I know you can bend the rules and all that, but I want to go STRICTLY by the book - can any of you guys tell me if the REGISTRATION paper and or title) you have for your truck has the GVWR on it or not and if so what it is ?

Many thanks.

Edit - both wanted info on both WA and OR because I just moved from OR to WA for work and may move back in a few years.

 

[eldgenb]

I registered my 5 ton in wa with my us97 form as a collector and they asked me what I wanted to register it as for weight and for title, they did not seem to care how accurate I was.

 

[bigelk50]

I have a 5 ton registered as a heavy truck. As long as you do not register it for over 26,000 pounds and never haul a combined weight (or vehicle weighs) over 26,000 you do not need a cdl. You will still have to stop at scales, but I have never been asked inside.

 

[Hammer]

Hmm, same boat as you, and I have a 5 ton, but I WILL be pulling a trailer (mainly to carry my MVs around...) just trying to figure out which state will be better off.
Of course I am more worried about the continual COST of registration, taxes, insurance, rather then the CDL part of it.

 

[Coldfusion21]

Hmm, same boat as you, and I have a 5 ton, but I WILL be pulling a trailer (mainly to carry my MVs around...) just trying to figure out which state will be better off.
Of course I am more worried about the continual COST of registration, taxes, insurance, rather then the CDL part of it.

I'm in oregon, with no MV and no previous experience registering heavy trucks.

However I do a lot of research and think I know what the law says. In oregon the registration of anything that needs a CDL to drive is a big deal. If I have read it right they require a DOT number along with a crap ton of other logs and such kept as if it was a commercial vehicle with no provision for personal use only.

Meaning getting the CDL is easy (driving test, medical sign off and written test) but the registration will be expensive and time consuming. Looking at the fee increase that took effect in Oregon the beginning of this month, it would cost 1k to register a rig with a GVWR of 80,000 pounds for one year.
(truck trailer+cargo)

 

[wsucougarx]

I called the DMV about this same issue and spoke to the WSP about the CDL requirements of the truck. They said if the truck has a GVW of over 26k lbs, then it requires a CDL. I informed them that I had no intention of exceeding the weight. They said it doesn't matter what my intentions were, if the truck is RATED for over this weight then IT REQUIRES a CDL. I then gave them the scenario of buying an 818 and removing the 5th wheel, they still said the same thing. If it has the rated potential of the GVW mentioned above it still needs a CDL....period. They didn't give me much argue room. So there it is. If you plan on buying a 5 ton and regardless of what you register it as, if it has the potential of exceeding the non-CDL weight THEN YOU NEED A CDL. I don't know doesn't seem right. But if the WSP said basically the same thing as the DMV w/out me referencing them. Take your chances I guess

In regard to COLLECTOR PLATES, when I was at the local office registering my deuce. The gal behind the counter wanted me to understand I couldn't haul anything in the back of the truck. She stated the truck is a cargo truck and naturally thought that's what I bought it for. I confirmed that I had no plans of hauling anything. Then she point to a WSP officer in overalls grinning in the corner and said this guy will get you I guess he was the guy in charge of the WSP commercial truck inspection/enforcement. He said yes and I would be more than happy to issue you a tonnage slip for breaking the law. Will I get pulled over in my deuce? I highly doubt it but no need to test out the waters

 

[Stalwart]

UM NO, the weight is over 26,000 so 26,001 is the magic number, the person you spoke with is a dolt. They are somewhat correct in their babble that if the vehicle is over that rated capacity (their's was wrong) you do need a CDL when it is used for commercial purposes. Just think about all those big motorhomes that weigh nearly 50,000 lbs empty . . . and have air brakes that need no endorsement. I have a CDL but in my MV's and when towing MV's well beyond 26,001 I never stop at scales, I'm not commercial, it's all my stuff and not for hire.

 

[Alex400]

I have read this a few times, and i think it makes the most sense.

WA State Licensing: Vehicles requiring a CDL

a deuce does not qualify for needing a cdl, but the 5-ton would as a combination and in gvw. sorry hammer.

 

[wsucougarx]

Sorry Stalwart I don't agree with the non-CDL requirement for a truck over the state's CDL GVW for personal use. Check out the link Alex400 just listed above and also see here for what doesn't require a CDL. As you can see and RV is specifically listed. I do not see reference to a vehicle over the 26k GVW for personal use on here.
WA State Licensing: Who doesn’t need a CDL?

As I understand it, it is more of a safety concern rather than working for hire or not. Not sure why RV's are an exception.

 

[Hammer]

I wasn't worried about the CDL, I was concerned about paying through the nose for registration and insurance on a vehicle that will not get used enough to justify the costs.
Heck, I thought about registering mine for 80k to cover my bases, but I would have to use the truck enough to pay for itself if I go that route.

 

[Stalwart]

So your MV isn't a recreational vehicle? Mine is!

Sorry, I was also talking about the need to stop at scales, the beer might have gotten in the way. Carry on . . .

 

[wsucougarx]

Roger that Stalwart, as you were

 

[Alex400]

So your MV isn't a recreational vehicle? Mine is!

Sorry, I was also talking about the need to stop at scales, the beer might have gotten in the way. Carry on . . .

that is what i thought about too. why not register it as a recreational vehicle? but online it looked like WA described a RV as a motor-home or similar.

 

[wsucougarx]

definately Alex, roll out a couple sleeping bags in the back of a deuce, put in a cooler and a port-a-potty. Yeehaw, I got me a redneck recreational vehicle. Hmmm, great thought for the next PNW Convoy event. Hopefully I'll have my shopvan by then

 

[Stalwart]

Wait a darn minute boys and girls, if you have a collectors plate on the vehicle, you are precluded from carrying a load, so isn't the weight carrying ability moot? -break between beers-

 

[kochevnik]

As for the CDL - Alex has the definitive word. That chart is pretty specific.

But that is not the main question for this thread ...



The main question is still : If I have a 5 ton that I bought out of state and I go to the DMV to transfer the title and register the vehicle with ANTIQUE/COLLECTOR's plates (SP plates in OR) - then DO I GET TO TELL THEM WHAT THE GVWR is on my truck ?

I registered my 5 ton in wa with my us97 form as a collector and they asked me what I wanted to register it as for weight and for title, they did not seem to care how accurate I was.

Elegenb seems to have answered it for WA.

Can anyone do the same for OR ?

Hasn't anyone here gone to the DMV to register their truck with Antique plates ? And if you did, were YOU allowed to set the GVWR or did the DMV take that info from somewhere else (title maybe ?)

 

[kochevnik]

Some more thoughts on this :

1) If WE are allowed to set the GVWR for the truck, then the CDL isn't as much of an issue.

2) I find it hard to believe that the DMV would allow me to take a 5 ton and bob it and still have the GVWR stay the same - you could definitely argue a big safety no-no right there. And similar modifications (swap axles for example). Since the DMV never sees your truck when it gets registered, you can tell them anything you want - "Oh sorry, I don't think that GVWR on the title is correct, the previous owner took one of the axles off and there is no way to reinstall it" - DMV person INSISTS on setting the GVWR over 26k - you reply "Oh so even tho my truck can't really carry all that weight safely, the DMV is going to allow me to put 10 tons of cargo on a truck that is only built to handle 2 tons ? " You could also point out that if the next user of the truck, nor the weigh station / police people are going to know the TRUE safe rating of the truck - and point out that the next person you sell the truck to is not going to be very safe either.

3) has ANYONE here gotten busted for:

a) being overweight (in the vehicle only FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT="not the beer gut)

b) not having a CDL when you needed one

c) hauling a load in a vehicle with Antique/Collectors/SP plates ?

4) If my 5 ton plan doesnt work out I was going to go with a USAF '87-'89 Deuce - problem with that is that can't be licensed with Collector/Antique plates ... it's too new. On the other hand if I register with regular plates, I don't have to worry about hauling a load legally (but then again my insurance goes up).

5) If you do decide to haul a load on an Antique plate truck then you could put the canvas cover on the back and who is to know. And if stopped, you could just say I installed new springs/axle and I wanted to test it to make sure it was safe.

My 50 years of experience has taught me that the govt people love to make these things as convoluted and complicated as possible - thats how they make money and cover their you-know-whats. It most arenas of life things have gotten SO complicated that even the drones themselves have no idea what the rules are. Best thing to do is to work the system - if drone A won't give the answer you want, then find another govt drone worker (and I state this from the viewpoint of having been a govt worker many times).

Anyways lots to consider.

 

[datsunaholic]

I wouldn't go trying to tell the counter person that your placarded weight doesn't apply because of axle removal, because that just might get you an appointment with a Commercial Vehicle inspector. You REALLY want to go through a State Patrol Commercial Division Inspection?

To qualify for "Recreational Vehicle" you'd have to have it titled as a Motorhome (code MH in WA). It's a different Use Class code, and required an inspection to do a use class change (where they ensure that the equipement that makes it an RV is permanently mounted- bunks and food prep area). MHs have different plates than trucks, and you do NOT want truck plates on an RV, because that makes it not an RV and now subject to all the requirements based on weight.

 

[Amer-team]

Just a side note here. I licensed my M54 as an historic vehcile last April at the Chehalis office of the State Patrol.

I took along the TM and showed the inspector the Data plate on the dash. He looked all over and was unable to find a frame number because there isn't one. He was also sneaky to ask questions to make sure that I wasn't trying to sneak in an M151. But don't laugh when they ask.

He did just give me a registration and I have to wait 3 years for a title. when getting the license, was able to convince the lady that you didn't have to pay tonnage on an historic vehicle and she concurred, so walked out with my registration and it is licensed as an historic vehicle.

As for the CDL requirement, I don't think so. Had one of the weights and measures guys give a lecture and go over my truck at Armed Forces day at Ft. Lewis in May and he explained why I did not need a CDL. I didn't follow the whole explanation, but figured as long as he was happy, so was I.

If you need specific info, drop a note and I will go out and get out the registration.

As for hauling a load, I would think that throwing a few things in the back up to and including a jeep, would not even be looked at. Now commercial hauling would be a different animal.

In the last couple of floods, I have hauled tons to the disposal station to help out family and neighbors, this in the M715 and I never heard a word about using a historic plated vehicle. If anyone asks, we are just out charging up the battery. Hope this helps.

 

[wsucougarx]

"As for hauling a load, I would think that throwing a few things in the back up to and including a jeep, would not even be looked at. Now commercial hauling would be a different animal."
Well not really so. Just be prepared to pay for tonnage if you get caught with a load w/Collector Vehicle plates. When I got my '68 M35A2 plated w/Collector's Plate the gal behind the counter warned me that if I get caught with anything in the rear of the truck, I'd get charged w/a tonnage slip. Then a uniformed WSP scale guy stepped from behind the corner said he'd be the one to catch me. I was not amused. So just be fore warned...I was