What happened to the Steyr 12m18 Stewart & Stevenson used for the lmtv?

[THE MACHINIST]

I know this is a big assumption on my part and that is seldom good. But I can only figure someone imported a few Steyr 12m18s to use for reverse engineering on the fmtv / lmtv.

The reason I am asking I would like to have one to make an expedition vehicle from and would like to avoid paying the 25% import tax. I know the m1078 is very similar but I would prefer less electronics, lockers front and rear and better fuel economy which the 12m18 accomplishes all that.

My guess if they imported any they were sent back or destroyed. But a guy can dream.

Thanks for any thoughts in advance

Jamie

 

[DSD277]

Completely different trucks. The FMTVs were made under license from Steyr. The cab is about the only thing in common with the Steyr, and only on the exterior
The only thing electronic in the early trucks was the trans.
If the LMTVs had a dataplate w/ GVW, they would require a cdl to drive, the commercial version Brazos 4x4 is 33k.

 

[THE MACHINIST]

I am aware they are different was just hoping someone knew of one for sale saving me the shipping and import tax
Thanks


Jamie

 

[DSD277]

If one was for sale here, you'd wouldn't be saving money, just the number of lines before the bottom line.
Very few times would a European MV sell for less than it cost for them to get it here. Usually, it is at a premium.
At this time, it would need to be a 1989 or older for most of the US for import.
I was looking at the Steyr ( and have had a bunch of SDP) when I got my M1094.
If I had to make a guess on a 12M18 in the US, I'd expect it to be at least $25k (super cheap or trash) to probably into the mid 30s or +.
The FMTVs are a much better deal on this side of the pond.
Parts for the 12M18 would be pricey also, all imported.

 

[THE MACHINIST]

I know I won't be saving money. Especially with the prices of the 9 that were at
Atlanta last week. I just am not a fan of electronics. I know from reputation
most allison trans are pretty solid. I am just worried about some electrical gremlin
leaving me stranded without a truck shop and a scanner to figure it out.

Have you heard of anyone adding lockers to the front and rear diffs on the lmtv's?

i could live with the fuel mileage if I saved enough on the initial purchase I guess.

Thanks

Jamie

 

[DSD277]

As I said before, the early trucks are mechancial injection, no electronic except trans and the world class trans has a very good reputation, usually its a mechanic that thinks he smarter than the engineers when problems occur.
I don't know when the change was made from the 3116 to the 3126 (my '96 M1094 is a 3116), and if there were more changes later, I don't know. The FMTVs had their teething pains, but I like them, and if I had the room, get myself a LMTV to play with . A big plus for the Steyr is the lower GVW (no cdl), a longer bed and disc brakes instead of air.

IF there are any left, a SD Brazos has a Cummin 6.7 which makes parts easier... just requisition them from your nearest Dodge truck .

I don't what to comment on other things I am not sure of, but have read info I know is wrong, but don't know enough about to give the complete correct answer

 

[linuxjoergen]

Alternatives

Just saw this thread. I'm from the other side of the pond, Denmark. I actually happen to have an expedition vehicle on a very similar truck to the 12M18 / LMTV. My truck is a MAN L2000 :

https://plus.google.com/photos/1024...5675941492468534066&oid=102485965599153388520

The origin of the cab is the same. MAN bought Steyr way back when and used the cab for their small truck range. Here in Denmark at least this truck and its successor is often used instead of a Unimog as a salvage truck. Not quite as off road capable. But a whole lot cheaper.

But since you are considering importing a truck, I would recommend to look at another truck: The MAN KAT1. I have two myself and I'm thinking about converting one of them into a camper like this one:

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558777_10151777676843324_238694579_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1005758_10151777677238324_81307919_n.jpg

Even though it is older than my MAN L2000 it has some advantages:

• The KAT1 cab is wide - It can easily sit three on the passenger bench. And no dog house. So it is a 4 person car. The L2000 can have 3 people in the cab. And the middle one will be sitting akward due to the dog house. I guess the same goes for LMTV and Steyr.
• KAT1 has coil springs. It has way better suspension comfort than my L2000. My L2000 tends to jump and bounce. The KAT1 seams to be much more stable on the road. It just feels a lot more comfortable even though the L2000 has air riding seats.
• The engine: An air cooled Deutz 12.7l V8 engine. Amazing engine. The successor, 513 was actually used in the Danish IC3 trains. They have recently been replaced after 3 millions of kilometers... Not because of tear and wear. But because of environmental issues.
• Offroad capabilities: The KAT1 was built to follow a Leopard Tank through terrain at 70km/h. Don't know if that goes for the 4x4 version. But I'm pretty sure the 8x8 is up for the task.
• Stiff chassis: The KAT1 is build with box profiles instead of U-profiles. So there is very little chassis twist which makes it much easier to mount a camper box. No three point mounts or anything. Just use the already mounted bed.
• KAT1, at leat GLW-version, comes with a center mounted winch.

It has a few downsides compared to the L2000 however:

• Fuel econmy is not too good because of the huge engine. My guess is 4km/l. The L2000 actually does near to 6km/l with is small 4,6l 4 cylinder engine.
• Gearing is too low... It is geared for a crusing speed at 60km/h. It tops at 84km/h.
• The noise level. It's not that bad. You can easily talk while driving. Especially when not going to fast. But the L2000 is more civilised.

The KAT1 can be bought for around 6000€ at Vebeg auctions. And many of them are in a very good condition.

The import tax might disappear in the future due to the TAFTA-deal which should eliminate import taxes both ways. Would be nice to see a more diverce truck market both places.

Oh and - both the L2000 and KAT1 has center and rear diff locks. No front diff locks by standard.

 

[linuxjoergen]

Alternatives

Just saw this thread. I'm from the other side of the pond, Denmark. I actually happen to have an expedition vehicle on a very similar truck to the 12M18 / LMTV. My truck is a MAN L2000 :

https://plus.google.com/photos/1024...5675941492468534066&oid=102485965599153388520

The origin of the cab is the same. MAN bought Steyr way back when and used the cab for their small truck range. Here in Denmark at least this truck and its successor is often used instead of a Unimog as a salvage truck. Not quite as off road capable. But a whole lot cheaper.

But since you are considering importing a truck, I would recommend to look at another truck: The MAN KAT1. I have two myself and I'm thinking about converting one of them into a camper like this one:

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558777_10151777676843324_238694579_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1005758_10151777677238324_81307919_n.jpg

Even though it is older than my MAN L2000 it has some advantages:

• The KAT1 cab is wide - It can easily sit three on the passenger bench. And no dog house. So it is a 4 person car. The L2000 can have 3 people in the cab. And the middle one will be sitting akward due to the dog house. I guess the same goes for LMTV and Steyr.
• KAT1 has coil springs. It has way better suspension comfort than my L2000. My L2000 tends to jump and bounce. The KAT1 seams to be much more stable on the road. It just feels a lot more comfortable even though the L2000 has air riding seats.
• The engine: An air cooled Deutz 12.7l V8 engine. Amazing engine. The successor, 513 was actually used in the Danish IC3 trains. They have recently been replaced after 3 millions of kilometers... Not because of tear and wear. But because of environmental issues.
• Offroad capabilities: The KAT1 was built to follow a Leopard Tank through terrain at 70km/h. Don't know if that goes for the 4x4 version. But I'm pretty sure the 8x8 is up for the task.
• Stiff chassis: The KAT1 is build with box profiles instead of U-profiles. So there is very little chassis twist which makes it much easier to mount a camper box. No three point mounts or anything. Just use the already mounted bed.
• KAT1, at leat GLW-version, comes with a center mounted winch.

It has a few downsides compared to the L2000 however:

• Fuel econmy is not too good because of the huge engine. My guess is 4km/l. The L2000 actually does near to 6km/l with is small 4,6l 4 cylinder engine.
• Gearing is too low... It is geared for a crusing speed at 60km/h. It tops at 84km/h.
• The noise level. It's not that bad. You can easily talk while driving. Especially when not going to fast. But the L2000 is more civilised.

The KAT1 can be bought for around 6000€ including VAT at Vebeg auctions. And many of them are in a very good condition.

The import tax might disappear in the future due to the TAFTA-deal which should eliminate import taxes both ways. Would be nice to see a more diverce truck market both places.

Oh and - both the L2000 and KAT1 has center and rear diff locks. No front diff locks by standard.

Sorry about the two posts... Don't know what happened there.

 

[DSD277]

I don't know if the OP is locked into the FMTVs or open to looking around, but the Mercedes 1017 is available here also as the US military has used them and Mercedes has sold the 2x4 version commercially. I consider the ready availability of parts very important in an expedition vehicle.

 

[THE MACHINIST]

The man kat looks very nice and affordable but its slow speed and fuel
consumption is a downside for me. The L2000 also looks good but I need an extended
cab for my 2 kids. Could you show some pics of your expedition vehicle I am always looking for ideas.

The Mercedes 1017 is a nice platform but not as off road capable as the steyr or lmtv.

Does anyone know what axles are in the lmtv so I can investigate the cost of getting lockers installed?
Has anyone seen an m1078 with the air filter and tire relocated so a shelter could be moved forward to
install a pass through or just be able to put on a longer shelter.
P.S.

Did anyone snag one from Atalanta hope it works out well for them seemed like great prices if they are solid.

Thanks again for all the thoughts and advice

Jamie

 

[bchauvette]

follow

 

[linuxjoergen]

> but its slow speed and fuel consumption is a downside for me
The KAT1 can do 16r20 tyres. That will add to the top speed and the off road capability. Also - The axles are somewhat standard, and can be "upgraded" to fast axles.

> The L2000 also looks good but I need an extended cab for my 2 kids
The L2000 cab is very similar to the Steyr and the LMTV. It is for three people. But the middle seat is not the most comfortable for a full size person. For a kid it might be OK. The KAT1 can easily seat 4 people in the cab with comfort.

> Could you show some pics of your expedition vehicle I am always looking for ideas.
Sure - not the best pictures. My expedition vehicle is nothing like a Unicat. I simply don't have the money. It's more like a traditional camper build on top of a small 4x4 truck. The gallery is on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/linuxjoergen/media_set?set=a.10379908323.18107.724423323&type=3

> The Mercedes 1017 is a nice platform but not as off road capable as the steyr or lmtv.
Not quite - But one can replace the duallies with bigger single tyres. It makes quite a difference.
http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorial_2011/GXV_Mercedes/MB-10171b.jpg

Regarding offroad capabilities in an expedition vehicle - Seldom you need real tough off road capablities. More like real tough road capabilites. And fording depth as well. Maneuverability is just a big a issue. Long wheelbase or what else might cause a big turning radius is a no go... This for instance is a joke:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3149/2867303224_d3c2f71ebf.jpg

You might have big roads locally - but if you want to go everywhere, you have to consider the lowest common denominator. The above truck would have a hard time getting around in for instance Norway.

> pass through or just be able to put on a longer shelter.
Note that pass through requires to be flexible because of chassis twist. Like the pass through on articulated busses.

Getting parts is of course an issue. If you travel mostly in US, a US truck would be the preferred choice. And also: US trucks are build for US conditions. More comfort with conventional style trucks. In Europe and some other places you would need a COE to make the wheelbase short. In Europe, Africa and russia, European trucks are most common. In south Asia they have local brands as well.

 

[tokarev]

Speaking of atlanta does anyone have those numbers? - I missed it

 

[THE MACHINIST]

9 different ones sold from $9100-14,500

Gotta sell my hummer first then I am torn between buying one of these
and adding lockers and relocating the spare tire and snorkel Or spending more to buy the Steyr 12m18.

Anyone know what model axles are in the M1078 I have read Rockwell as well as Arvin meritor. But I need a model to figure out cost of adding lockers

Thanks
Jamie

 

[bchauvette]

As long as we are the camper subject can one of you lucky FMTV owners give me the cargo bed outside length and width, cab height to cargo bed top and the dimension from the cab to the front of the cargo bed.

 

[tokarev]

If you dont hear from anyone I would be happy to measure mine once I get back from the SHOT show in vegas.

 

[bchauvette]

Thank you