M35A3 - Trans Fluid Flush Question & other Filter Maintenance

[Commander5993]

internal trans filter part number is what for the A3 trans? NAPA?

Rustygears stated in another thread that the Napa Internal Transmission # was ATP14959. So far this has been the only part number that I have found the internal transmission filter.
Is that the correct # or ???
Do you have an Allison or other Brand #?

Here is the SS thread in which I found the Napa # in: http://tinyurl.com/79gk9lu

 

[Commander5993]

Just posted a few more updates to the filter list in my OP (Original Post). I found the Air Filter Number and the Air Drier Kit Numbers. If anyone reads the A3 Filter List, and finds that I have forgotten a filter, please post a reply. Thanks!

 

[steelandcanvas]

Commander, PM me if you are interested in that Allison Internal Filter and Gasket Kit, I have several on hand. These are Mil Surplus.

 

[Commander5993]

Commander, PM me if you are interested in that Allison Internal Filter and Gasket Kit, I have several on hand. These are Mil Surplus.

Thanks SteelAndCanvas! PM Sent!

 

[rossbart]

Hope you refilled your transmission before you drove it j/k!



Hummm... Have to look into the "transmission vent" info, as I haven't read anything about that yet. Have to find the info and be sure to check that while I'm at it. Thanks for the Tip

And I'm glad that you were able to fix your problem with the trans cooler pretty easily. Have you had any heat problems with it since you bypassed it? If you do start having heat problems, or if you just want to prevent any possible problems, you might look into adding a separate aftermarket transmission cooler. I'm sure Napa or other parts stores should carry a few, and they're usually not that expensive.
Thanks for the Post!

If you look behind the cab on the passenger side you'll see a cluster of three plastic hoses that come up just above the metal rear bulkhead and makes a 180 degree loop then back down. Those are three vents and one of them goes to the top of the transmission. Apparently, the vent i.d. is so small that it's relatively common for them to plug up. One problem with that is you'll make a mess of your truck when you try filling it (or so I've read). More importantly, I have "read" that this condition can damage or ruin the transmission. Mine seemed fine but just a friendly heads-up.

On the transmission internal cooler and my transmission temps since my bypass, it is very cool. Matter of fact, I wonder if it's TOO cool. Of course, it's winter and air temp has been in the 30's and 40's since I bypassed. But, I'm not sure it''s gotten up TO 140 degrees since the modification. I kind of wonder if the internal cooler also serves to warm the fluid more quickly using the engine coolant and then the external cools it back down a bit from the 180-200 degree engine coolant temp. Heck, I don't know. I've always heard that it's heat that kills transmissions. But, can the fluid be TOO cool. I know cool engine oil wears out motors quicker - but that may be a different deal. What say the experts?

Ross

 

[Rustygears]

Here's my compendium of part number crosses for the A3.


Item OEM Mfg OEM P/N Commercial Mfg Comm'l P/N
Air Dryer Dessicant Kit Haldex DQ6026 Midland Brake MBI DQ6026


Primary Fuel CAT 7E9763 Napa FIL 3239 Fram P1120
Engine Oil CAT 1R-0739 Napa FIL 1791
1R-1807 FIL 1791XE
FIL 1791 XD
FIL 7791

Fram PH8842 PH8842FP
TPH8842FP
PH49A
HPH49A
HPH49AFP




Transmission, External Allison 12356825 Napa 1268 AC PF897
Fram PH3519A
PF141
Napa 1553 Fram HP1
Napa 1551 Purolator PER20







Transmission, Internal Allison 29506392
Baldwin 19992
29540976
Napa ATP14959



Trans Oil 21qt capacity, 10 refill w/filter Dexron III, C-4, MIL-L-46167
Napa Premium Performance ATF Dexron III
Napa NHF 85-405 Premium Heavy Duty Tractor Hydraulic & Transmission Fluid GL-4

Engine Oil 21qt capacity, 19 refill w/filter, 18 refill w/o filter CAT ECF-3, API CJ-4 15W-40
Rotella T6 5W-40 Synth
T5 10W-40 Synth Blend
T Triple 15W-40
Delo Delo 400 Multigrade SAE 15W-40


Engine Coolant 27qt Capacity Antifreeze, Ethylene Glycol Federal Spec O-A-548, Type II 50/50 mix

Brake Fluid 2qt reservoir capacity BFS, Mil-B-46176 (Silicone) DOT-5 (Silicone) Napa DOT5 Silicone brake fluid 45-101




Transfer Case 7qt GO 80/90 MIL-L-2105 SAE J2360, API MT-1, API GL-5
80W/90 Gear Oil




Front/Rear Differentials 6qt GO 80/90 MIL-L-2105 SAE J2360, API MT-1, API GL-5
80W/90 Gear Oil




Steering Gearbox 3.13pt GO 80/90 MIL-L-2105 SAE J2360, API MT-1, API GL-5
80W/90 Gear Oil




Grease MIL-G-10924 NLGI #2 Lucas Red Tacky, X-tra Heavy Duty


Front shock
Monroe 34787



Water Pump Belt CAT 7E0744
Napa NBH 259345HD
NBH 259345
PBH17345


Fan Belt CAT 7PK1639.6
12448759

 

[Rustygears]

It seems the formatting of the table doesn't post regardless if I edit again or not.

 

[Commander5993]

If you look behind the cab on the passenger side you'll see a cluster of three plastic hoses that come up just above the metal rear bulkhead and makes a 180 degree loop then back down. Those are three vents and one of them goes to the top of the transmission. Apparently, the vent i.d. is so small that it's relatively common for them to plug up. One problem with that is you'll make a mess of your truck when you try filling it (or so I've read). More importantly, I have "read" that this condition can damage or ruin the transmission. Mine seemed fine but just a friendly heads-up.

Thanks for location info! I'll have to check that out, sounds like it could lead to a headache if not maintained.

On the transmission internal cooler and my transmission temps since my bypass, it is very cool. Matter of fact, I wonder if it's TOO cool. Of course, it's winter and air temp has been in the 30's and 40's since I bypassed. But, I'm not sure it''s gotten up TO 140 degrees since the modification. I kind of wonder if the internal cooler also serves to warm the fluid more quickly using the engine coolant and then the external cools it back down a bit from the 180-200 degree engine coolant temp. Heck, I don't know. I've always heard that it's heat that kills transmissions. But, can the fluid be TOO cool. I know cool engine oil wears out motors quicker - but that may be a different deal. What say the experts?

Ross

Well, that's an unexpected outcome It could be like you said, just the cold winter temps keeping it down, and it not being warmed up by the radiator. Just wouldn't have figured that a "cooler" is also a winter fluid warmer, but it just might be.
Not sure if cooler fluid will reduce trans life. But I guess it is possible that it could cause problems. If you think about it, now while you're driving the transmission would be operating at speed, however the fluid would still be at idle temp, or just a little warmer. Might not bother any thing though, I don't know.
I also ask "What say the Experts?"

 

[CobraCDR]

I'm am strongly considering switching over to trans fluid rather than the motor oil in my truck when I get home. When you do the first flush or two, could you re-use the same trans fluid and then use fresh fluid that last few flushes or would that not be advised? Just considering how to have less wasts fluid when I'm all finished.

Will that small bit or residual oil that will never end up being flushed out have any bad interactions with the trans fluid?

Thanks,

 

[Rustygears]

Recycling the oil between flushes entirely defeats the purpose of changing to ATF. Doing so keeps your system at only about 40% ATF and the rest motor oil. You want to have 90% ATF.

 

[Commander5993]

I'm am strongly considering switching over to trans fluid rather than the motor oil in my truck when I get home. When you do the first flush or two, could you re-use the same trans fluid and then use fresh fluid that last few flushes or would that not be advised? Just considering how to have less wasts fluid when I'm all finished.

Will that small bit or residual oil that will never end up being flushed out have any bad interactions with the trans fluid?

Thanks,

Nope, can't reuse the fluid, as when you do each fluid change you are wanting to get rid of as much oil as possible. If you re-use the same fluid over, you are putting the Original Motor Oil that is mixed with that ATF back into the transmission as well. Basically you are diluting the motor oil in the transmission with each drain and ATF refill, until finally in the end you get around a 98% ATF in the Transmission system.

As long as you are at 90% or higher (emphasis on higher) of the Transmission Fluid, the residual amount of oil won't be a problem. In fact, although having a transmission fluid-oil mix is not desired, as far as I know having a ATF/Oil mix won't actually damage anything. Only shifting action performance will decrease the more oil that is in the system.
But I'm no expert, so does anyone else know a better answer to this question???

 

[Commander5993]

Recycling the oil between flushes entirely defeats the purpose of changing to ATF. Doing so keeps your system at only about 40% ATF and the rest motor oil. You want to have 90% ATF.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

 

[Hoefler]

Pete,
Save whats flushed-it will be about 2 gallons per flush or 8 gallons + total. I found it at Fleet farm in Oakdale-it has the Allison rating. 5 gallon bucket or 1 gallon jug-all about 8 or 9 dollars a gallon. My truck shifts better now that all the motor oil is out. I have saved all of the waste-put it back into the original ATF jugs. I have an M35A2 Duece that I will use it in after I set up a filter arrangement. Keep the old oil-dont recurculate it back in-just refill with fresh ATF. I will take the flushed stuff of your hands if you dont want it-I can burn in the Duece. I am in the White Bear area. Bring your truck over sometime and we can compare notes.
Pete

 

[rossbart]

Thanks for location info! I'll have to check that out, sounds like it could lead to a headache if not maintained.



Well, that's an unexpected outcome It could be like you said, just the cold winter temps keeping it down, and it not being warmed up by the radiator. Just wouldn't have figured that a "cooler" is also a winter fluid warmer, but it just might be.
Not sure if cooler fluid will reduce trans life. But I guess it is possible that it could cause problems. If you think about it, now while you're driving the transmission would be operating at speed, however the fluid would still be at idle temp, or just a little warmer. Might not bother any thing though, I don't know.
I also ask "What say the Experts?"

Don't know if this conclusively answers my question. But, the attached Allison white paper on transmission fluids does clearly indicate that I am better off with ATF than 15w40 in the tranny without the internal transmission cooler.

http://www.allisontransmission.com/documents/product/13-TR-90, Rev E.pdf

Specifically, it shows DexIII as okay down to -13 degrees (without warmup) versus +5 for 15w40. That should be safe in Oklahoma - at least in the winter. Seeing how last July Oklahoma had the hotest average monthly temperature in the country of any state since they started keeping weather records (most days over 110, some over 115) I should at least be "better off" than running MO without the internal cooler. Guess we'll see how it does come summer

Ross

 

[CobraCDR]

Thanks everyone. I was tracking the main objective was to reduce the oil level with each flush, but wasn't sure if it would help pull a little extra oil out by doing an extra flush or two with the "used" ATF. I still planned on the 3-4 flushes with new ATF.

 

[Monkeyboyarmy]

The internal filter is the same as the Chevy Turbo 400, as are are some of the clutches nd discs. I just rebuilt my 1545. Whole clutch kit,seals and filter was $100. The torque converter seal happened to be Allison specific. It was $20.

 

[CobraCDR]

Hoefler-

Did you flush it yourself or did you find somewhere in the metro that would do it at a reasonable price?

Thanks,

 

[Hoefler]

I flushed it my self over a few days. It wasnt as bad as I thought. Picked up a large blue catch pan with nozzle. Drained about 8 quarts each time.
Found a perfect re-fill funnel at Napa-then saw the same one at Wall Mart-its black with accordian bellows type nozzle. This thing fit perfect in the trans refill hole and under the dash. I found trans fluid at Fleet Farm-the Allison C4 stuff. They had in 5 gallon pails and one gallon jugs. Was very little price difference so I bought the small jugs. This made easy work on refill. I measured what drained out so I could get the same amount back in-this way I could reliably do test drives without risking to low or to high volume in trans. Did drive about 5 miles then did several back ups to help circulate. Recommend doing it yourself-it wasnt all that messy.
Let me know if you find an Allison shop in town though.
Pete

 

[CobraCDR]

I know CAT has a big shop just south of the river on the east side of 35W in Burnsville on HWY 13. I will be looking into the Allison shop when I get back to MN in January.

 

[Hoefler]

I was just at the CAT shop in Columbus (south of Forest Lake near Gander Mtn). Picked up a fuel filter for about $8. Do need to find an Allison shop on the north side.
Look me up when you get back, we can compare notes.
I have left my A3 outside a few nights to see if she would start. Got down to high teens overnight. She started up in the morning. Used a small shot of the ether, she bucked and kicked once running but smoothed out quickly.